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So Jordan Goldstein, welcome to
icons of DC Area Real Estate.

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Thank you for joining me today.
So please tell me about your

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position and role at Gensler.
What are your day to day

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activities and what initiatives
are important to you today?

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Well, thank you for having me,
John. Great to be here.

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So I stepped into the cozy CEO role
of Gensler and, started that.

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I was announced in late September
and stepped into that role,

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you know, beginning of the year.
So I've been at the company 28 years,

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and in those 28 years,
I've had a chance to play different

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roles and opportunities to lead
different aspects of our firm,

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which has been phenomenal.
So in this perspective,

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it's an opportunity to work across
our firm work with all 53 offices in

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our 6500 people around the globe,
and really look at the day to day

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operations and looking at what we
are strategizing for this year, as

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well as looking towards the future.
But at the same time, thinking

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about where this industry is going,
you know, what's on the horizon

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and how do we tackle left or TAC
right to make sure that we're

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proactive towards it.
With that many offices in that many

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countries you're in the diversity of.
Situations I guess you're looking at

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from an architectural standpoint
have to be almost infinite.

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Yeah. It's unbelievable.
You know, I just got back from a

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series of trips.
I was in Germany and I was able

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to visit our Munich office there
and meet with clients and look at

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some projects we're working on.
I was then in Miami.

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I go to San Francisco and Atlanta
and India in the coming weeks,

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and I love getting to these different
places because we're, you know,

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one, it's a cultural immersion and
we're seeing how we can really be,

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you know, the best of local and the
best of global at the same time,

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but also really thinking about how
we are able to, you know, play at,

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you know, across 33 different
practice areas in the firm.

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So the scope and scale projects
is so different.

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And you know, being able to,
you know,

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look at emerging practices as well,
which I find super exciting for us.

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You know, if you look at, you know,
new practices like sports or health

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and wellness and being able to work
with some of the great talent we

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have in those practices and the
opportunities to have to work on

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projects which are, you know,
the scale and the magnitude and

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the impact potential of those
projects are are significant.

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Well, I want to get into the
societal changes that we're seeing,

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not just from the pandemic, but
other things that have happened and

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how that influences your practice.
You know, it seems to me that we are

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going through a lot of sociological
changes right now in the world and,

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all kinds of things that are

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going on sure have to have impact
on architecture long term.

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I would think they do.
You know, and it is interesting that,

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the challenges that are out there,

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I'm a big believer that design

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is inherently an optimistic act.
And I find working across the globe

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with our, you know, our teams that,
you know, we are in these amazing

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opportunities and they're not just,
you know, on the projects,

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but also with our communities.
So the opportunity to have,

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you know, social impact,
to think differently about

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sustainability and what's what,
you know, the footprint,

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the carbon reduction capability
that we have through the projects,

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if you think about those 53 offices
and all these different projects

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around the world, you know,
it's a it's a chance to make impact,

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you know, when we think about it,

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you really shape the, you know,
you know, using, you know, the,

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the talent that is in this firm,
and really thinking about, you know,

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how we are designers of impact.
To me, that is a phenomenal point.

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You know,
when you think of the challenges that

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we have to be able to look at,
whether that is on the resilience,

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you know, issues that we're facing,
some of the geopolitical challenges,

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and then even in our communities,
the opportunity to do projects

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that can help, you know, unite and
heal communities. That's great.

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So let's pivot now, sir,
and tell us a little bit about

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your origins, youth and the
influences of your parents.

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Well, my parents were tremendously
influential in a number of ways.

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So my father, you know,
was a lawyer and my mom was a

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schoolteacher. Okay.
So they were not in the design field.

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In fact, you know, you know,
once I got a little bit older

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and was trying to, you know,
really figure out, okay, where did

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this interest and design come from,
you know, and was there anyone in the

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family tree that had, you know,
you know, design and artistic focus?

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I actually found that my
grandmother on my dad's side was

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very much into art.
She was actually a fantastic artist.

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And then on my did you know her?
I did.

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I was fortunate to know her. Yes.
And, she had, you know, and the

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time that I got to know her, she had,
like, long since given up painting.

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And actually, it wasn't until,
you know, she passed that we were

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able to kind of find a portfolio
of her work, and it's phenomenal.

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So in my house, I have, you know,
tons of her work, you know,

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on the walls. Great. Yeah.
And then on my,

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the grandfather on my mother's
side and actually my uncle are,

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Well, you know, they were really

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accomplished, statisticians.
So my grandfather was passed,

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but my uncle still practices.
He's a statistician at Carnegie

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Mellon.
And so you get a little bit of that,

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you know, the math and the,
and kind of the artistic side.

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But it wasn't really until my
parents, we were, I wanted to

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be an architect since I was five.
And, it was when I. Lego person.

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Yes. I love Legos. Yeah, Legos.
I was all into Legos and.

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Yeah, you know, you know.
You could attribute some of my

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design influences to maybe
Bauhaus or Cubism, but I think

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I'd attribute it to Legos.
So it was when I was really young,

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my parents wanted to move out of
the townhouse that we were in,

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and they were looking for houses.
And my my father was, you know,

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practicing law, you know,
and at his firm during the day.

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And my mom, you know,
when she wasn't, you know,

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doing teaching opportunities,
she would take me around as a little

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kid and we would, you know, go look
at these construction sites and we

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would see houses under construction.
And, you know,

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there'd be floor plans and stuff,
and she would come home and she'd

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wanted to give my dad a call and
talk about the projects that,

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you know, the buildings that she
was seeing the houses and plop me

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down in front of a pile of Legos.
So I just started, you know, building

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or trying to build what I had seen.
And that really was the, you know,

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kind of the impetus to, you know,
explore this world of design.

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But I give my parents a lot of credit
one year as a gift holiday gift.

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They gave me a drawing table
wasn't your average gift.

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So, you know, they were really I took
that as a sign that they were saying,

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yeah, you know, go for it.
And so from there it was.

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How old were you at the time.
Do you remember.

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Well I was five when I definitely,
you know started to show an

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interest in design.
I think the drawing table

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probably came you know.
Yeah something like that. Yeah, yeah.

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And did you start just diving
into it. Yeah.

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I mean I would, you know, after
school and after any extracurricular

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activities when I probably should
have been doing my homework,

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I was drawing floor plans and,
you know, drawing sketches of,

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you know, new communities.
I loved your inspiration for that.

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Well, you know, it's interesting
because, you know, I was I grew

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up in Rockville, Maryland, okay.
And, you know, I didn't,

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you know, certainly, you know,
coming down to DC,

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we'd come down to museums and stuff,
you know, there was, you know,

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certainly precedent that I would I
was able to see it in early age,

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but it wasn't that much.
So I just think it was more,

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you know, exploring, you know,
kind of just creative combustion

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in a positive way.
And what it led to was really,

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you know, it just piqued the interest
to the point where I looked at,

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you know, going through high
school as just a way to get from

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point A to point B, I wanted to
get out and learn about design,

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and I wanted to get out in the
world and practice architecture.

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And that's why I went, you know,
I went straight through,

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I went undergrad architecture degree,
grad architecture degree and

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just went right to practice.
I didn't take any time off between,

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you know, undergrad and grad.
Why not engineering?

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Why architecture? Not engineering?
Just out of curiosity, yeah.

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You know, I loved that architecture.
You know, in its pure form.

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you know, different, different

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terrains, different disciplines.
I actually saw it from the beginning,

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you know, as an interdisciplinary, career.

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So it combines a little bit of
engineering, right?

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It combines, you know,
some of the things we think about

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from an art standpoint, you know, if
you think about it from a landscape

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and sight understanding, you know,
certainly there's the, you know,

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kind of the understanding of geometry
and thinking about, you know,

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volume and space and proportion, but it wasn't really until,

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you know, two moments in undergrad
and grad that were really a catalyst

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for thinking about architecture
at a totally different level.

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And I was just about to finish what I
thought was finishing, I should say,

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my undergrad, you know, tenure
as at the University of Maryland

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and had a great experience there.
And, I remember a professor

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coming up and saying, you know,
you're going to actually be a

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couple credits shy of graduation,
and you need you'll need to take a

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you can walk through the graduation
ceremony, but you need to take a

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summer course, and you could take
it here at College Park, but the

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same course is actually offered, there's a version in,

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in Rome, Italy.
But I'm like, well,

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I'm gonna go to Rome.
And so that was my first kind of

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foray into, you know,
across the pond.

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And I had, you know, I was with
a class and I had an apartment

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near the Campo de Fiore in Rome,
and the classroom was the streets

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of Rome. It wasn't a classroom.
So every day we'd be out there and we

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would be drawing and we would be,
you know, painting and looking

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at amazing, you know,
moments in history and thinking about

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not just the history side of it,
but what made it work.

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And there was one moment on that
trip that I'll never forget.

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And it was I was sitting out
there sketching in a piazza and,

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And, I was sketching a plaza.

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a in the plaza, but it was a,

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And two guys come up to me and

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they look at what I'm sketching
and they say, you know,

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you're an architecture student.
I said, yes, and they said, you know,

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And the other one was his client.

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And they said, you know,
the architect guy says,

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do you mind if I see your sketchbook?
So he takes my sketchbook and he

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takes the palazzo facade, and on top
of it, he draws a musical staff.

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And he makes he makes it such
that the windows, the doors and

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the articulation on that facade
is the notes of the music. Wow.

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And I'm like, okay. Wow.
So then from there I went

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straight to grad school.
Leonardo da Vinci. It was.

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Yeah, it was like one of those
moments, right?

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Where you're just like, oh,
the music of architecture,

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right? I can see it, right?
You know, I can see in this case

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the multidisciplinary. Yeah.
Gets back to it. Right.

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And it just weaves it kind of
like all together at that moment.

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So I went straight to grad school
at the University of Pennsylvania.

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And one of the reasons I chose the
University of Pennsylvania was at

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the time, they were really the
only school in the country that

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was offering a Japan program.
And I felt like I'd explored

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Western architecture philosophies,
and I really wanted to explore,

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you know, eastern.
So I went to Japan and Japan.

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The program there was phenomenal.
You were studying with a

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Japanese master.
So unlike the the Rome program,

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which was very much, you know,
the classes in the streets and you're

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studying these, you know, amazing
pieces of architecture in Japan.

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We were traveling around the country
with this Japanese master who

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was teaching us the traditional
ways of Japanese architecture.

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Okay. Stop there.
From what is the major distinctive

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factor about Japanese architecture
compared to, say, the Romans?

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Because we're going back thousands
of years in both cultures,

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right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And, well, there's,

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there's some inherent,
you know, ideas that started to,

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you know, emerge in a compare
contrast scenario. Okay.

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You know, certainly the permanence
of Western architecture, like you

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see in, you know, in Italy, these,
you know, the stone facades, right?

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The columns, the mass, you know,
the sheer mass and the weight

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and the beauty that's woven into
that in Japan, it feels very

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much like the architecture has
almost an ephemeral quality.

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You know, the, the wood framework,
the shoji screens, you know,

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the way light plays through,
it's actually very light.

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You know, it's touching the
Earth in a different way.

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And that was phenomenal to be
able to see that in an early age.

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But what about the thought process
when they were designing it?

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Was it thinking long term in both
cases, or was it thinking we're going

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to adapt and continue to adapt?
Well,

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some of those temples have stood,
you know, stood the test of time.

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You know, what I what I found
fascinating is we would go around

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and we'd study like traditional
joinery and, you know, that's

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what makes it what makes it work.
You know, these things that were

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coming together and they're not
using nails and glue or anything.

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Right. You know, and it it works, so that was an amazing

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juxtaposition. Right.
So I came back from it just to

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add one more note to this.
I came back from, from Japan,

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back to Philadelphia.
And I was just like, you know,

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my mind's kind of a little bit
scrambled.

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You know,
you're seeing all these different,

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And I started doing a quick

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internship between before going
back into the finish the last year.

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And it was at a firm in Philly.
And the one day the head of the

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firm walks through and he goes,
we just, we got a grant to work

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with the Zuni tribe in New Mexico,
working with their old,

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you know, historic pueblo.
We need somebody to go and be on

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the pueblo and work with the tribe.
And it looks over at me,

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and he's like, you're good at
building models. Why don't you go?

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So I was all of a sudden,
I'm out in New Mexico not that

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long after I got back from Japan.
And now I'm seeing, you know,

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this pueblo, you know, historic,
amazing construction, you know,

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that is also stood the test of time, you know, different, you know,

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different era, obviously, but,
fascinating to to see that all.

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So that really whetted my appetite,
you know, for exploring,

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international design,
being able to immerse in different

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cultures and different experiences
and that architecture, you know,

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00:15:48,510 --> 00:15:51,270, you know, we get down to it.
It's really about, you know,

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creating platforms for experiences. Fascinating.

247
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So you went with it five years
at Maryland, or was it four.

248
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For Maryland and then two at
University of Pennsylvania?

249
00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:06,980
Modern architecture undergraduates
are five years now, aren't they?

250
00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:08,690
There's different programs.
You can do, different tracks.

251
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You could do a four plus two or
a five.

252
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Five is a Bachelor of Architecture,
you know, four plus two.

253
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You get you can get a master's I c
or you could go and get a degree

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in something else and then go for,
you know,

255
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a graduate level master's degree,
which is a three year program.

256
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And and the reason why all of
this is kind of coming,

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you know, right to the forefront
of my mind is my daughter.

258
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My younger daughter is applying
right now to architecture and

259
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design schools for me.
So, you know, you get a refresh

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of all the different tracks.
Is she aiming at Maryland or is

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she going to?
It's one of the ones she's

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looking at.
Yeah, she's going through the

263
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whole process right now.
The older daughter is studying

264
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theater at northwestern,
so we have both, you know,

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the arts in different ways.
I don't know if northwestern has

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an architectural program.
They don't. Yeah, yeah.

267
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I went to Michigan and I know they
oh, they have. A great program.

268
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So.
So six years they're in education.

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And then what? Then what?
Did you jump?

270
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Well, I was looking at where to work,
and it was interesting.

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I was I remember sitting in my, you know, my apartment in

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Philadelphia, and I was like,
you know, filling out, you know,

273
00:17:23,340 --> 00:17:26,040, you know, writing cover
letters and putting portfolios

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together to send out to firms.
And I was sending out to the firms,

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I, I wanted to come back to DC,
the DC area because, you know,

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my family's here and, girlfriend, now, wife, was here,

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I was getting recruited to go up
to New York to work there.

278
00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:50,730, but when I was filling all
that stuff up, stuff out, I got a

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phone call from the girlfriend.
My girlfriend slash now wife?

280
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:59,130, that she said you really
should look at this firm Gensler.

281
00:17:59,950 --> 00:18:05,590
And she's like, I'm reading this,
you know, US News and World Report,

282
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,770, you know, article.
It talks about how they have a really

283
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great, you know, intern program.
And I'm like, oh, interesting.

284
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Okay, so I sent my, you know, stuff
to Gensler. So when I came to D.C..

285
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So when I came to the D.C. area,
I still had I was between, you know,

286
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finishing up classes and graduation.
I did a slew of interviews

287
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around here.
And I came in to Gensler,

288
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and was interviewed here.
And, Diane Hoskins was

289
00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:37,330
actually one of the people that
interviewed me, when she was

290
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running the Washington, DC office.
And it was a,

291
00:18:40,810 --> 00:18:44,920
it was a fascinating conversation,
because what I loved about it was

292
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at a lot of the firms I went to,
the conversation was about a

293
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traditional path of, you know,
design education.

294
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You know, in the professional realm,
you're going to come in and you'll be

295
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able to do, you know, be working
and supporting the team doing this.

296
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And you may move, you know,
from doing that to doing this.

297
00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:07,510
And it was very much about like
a process.

298
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And I came to Gensler and the
conversation was about people.

299
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It was about culture, and design
was like an undercurrent to it all.

300
00:19:16,330 --> 00:19:18,340
And that was like the glue
holding it together.

301
00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:20,860
And I'm like, that's interesting.
That's a different perspective.

302
00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:25,810
And I was still very fascinated
by an interdisciplinary approach

303
00:19:25,810 --> 00:19:29,260
to design, and I was hearing
more of that message here.

304
00:19:29,410 --> 00:19:33,130
And then the last piece of the
puzzle was one of the ways I was

305
00:19:33,220 --> 00:19:38,020
supporting myself through, you know,
through grad school, was working at

306
00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:41,110
the University of Pennsylvania's
architectural archives,

307
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:44,620
you know, like unfolding drawings
and cataloging drawings.

308
00:19:44,620 --> 00:19:48,970
And it's the work of masters,
you know, Louis Kahn's archives

309
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or their Corbusier's some of his
work is there.

310
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Scarpa, I mean, you name it,
there's there's amazing stuff there.

311
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:59,860
And I kept thinking about what at
least drawings that I'm seeing them.

312
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And I came across some photos of
these masters in their studios.

313
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:08,200
And the thing that I always
caught my eye was the master was

314
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,430
in the foreground, and there were
these people in the background.

315
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,770
Interesting, right?
And that was the team.

316
00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:16,810
But you never really heard about
the team.

317
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,320
And I just kept getting this
thing in my mind.

318
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And I find that this is very
much true at Gensler is that

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00:20:22,890 --> 00:20:28,560
design is not a solo art.
You know, it. It really is.

320
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,430
You know, an art where,
you know, the voices of many,

321
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,410
you know, in the right, you know,
arrangement can create some

322
00:20:37,410 --> 00:20:42,120
really wonderful, rich solutions.
Well, it's interesting,

323
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:47,740
like writing, design to me is you're addressing

324
00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:51,610
a need to some extent, right?
You're you're trying to get in the

325
00:20:51,610 --> 00:20:56,590
head of your audience to some extent,
because you're doing it for a

326
00:20:56,590 --> 00:20:58,420
purpose.
The purpose usually is not just

327
00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:00,910
for your own need,
it's for someone else's.

328
00:21:00,910 --> 00:21:04,510
Typically, in an architecture,
you're serving a client, right?

329
00:21:04,510 --> 00:21:07,900
Yeah. Yeah, almost all the time.
You know, you're not just doing

330
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:13,690
it for your own edification.
So and and as an author of a book,

331
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,110
you're, you're supposed to write
something that people want to read.

332
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:20,350
Right? So yeah.
When you think about it, it really

333
00:21:20,350 --> 00:21:25,360
comes down to, you know, you're
you're using the power of design.

334
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,060
We talk about this a lot at Gensler.
You know, these, you know,

335
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:32,440
the power of design to shape the
future of cities, shape the

336
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,180
future of experiences. Right.
And, you know, that is,

337
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:40,360
you know, that's a powerful
statement when you think about it.

338
00:21:40,660 --> 00:21:43,900
Well, it's a cultural statement,
right?

339
00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:48,670
But your client might have a little
different perspective and say,

340
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:52,360
wait a minute, that's not what I want
you to do. I want you to do this.

341
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:56,230
I said, well, let me let's and
this might be your role.

342
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:59,380
Let's stand back for a minute.
How does this all fit in? Sure.

343
00:21:59,380 --> 00:22:02,680
To its surroundings. Yeah.
I think that through a little bit.

344
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,990
Right to your point, how do you also
look at these as true collaborations?

345
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,350
You know, and I think, you know,
that's something I feel like we do

346
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:15,160
very well, which is not to come in
and assume that there is a solution.

347
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,510
You know, it's that, you know,
the Adam Grant book, think again.

348
00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:22,810
You know, approach the world from
the, you know, the standpoint and

349
00:22:22,810 --> 00:22:26,290
view of as a scientist, you know,
where you're you don't know the

350
00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:30,190
answer. There's a question mark.
And if we, you know, come into

351
00:22:30,190 --> 00:22:33,040
this and say, you know what,
there isn't a prescribed solution.

352
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,630
Let's figure this out together.
What are what are what's the vision,

353
00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:41,110
what are the ideas.
And that's the that's the kind of

354
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:47,020
ignition moment that is so like sets
the journey, you know, on the path.

355
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,760
And hopefully it's the right path.
Right.

356
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,100
But it sets the journey on a
path where it's like the ideas

357
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,940
are flowing.
And then, you know, I feel like

358
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:58,000
as architects and designers,
we have this wonderful role to

359
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,540
be conductors of a symphony.
And in the, you know,

360
00:23:01,540 --> 00:23:04,930
in the true collaborative sense,
you know, the client is,

361
00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:08,110
you know, at the table.
Also, there's other expertise

362
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:10,540
that should be at the table
depending on the project type.

363
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,530
You know, thinking about some of
these amazing projects where,

364
00:23:14,530 --> 00:23:18,520
you know, we're dealing with,
you know, complex sites.

365
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,880
So it's unlocking the site, but,
you know, it's going to have some

366
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,640
fabulous landscape architecture
talent at the table.

367
00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:26,680
You know, let's think about,
you know, if you're thinking about

368
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,740
some of the cultural projects,
lighting design, you know, and how

369
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:33,700
much that can play into this, right?
Structural engineering, you know,

370
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:37,480
being able to think through these
days, you know, like on the Under

371
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,510
Armour project we're doing in
Baltimore, which a net zero project,

372
00:23:40,570 --> 00:23:46,420
you know, having really talented
structural engineers and mechanical,

373
00:23:46,570 --> 00:23:50,140
you know, engineers at the table.
So we can think through different

374
00:23:50,140 --> 00:23:53,560
ways, like, let's get away from the
conventional norm and think about

375
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,130
what this is, a net zero building.
So just by the nature of what we're

376
00:23:57,130 --> 00:24:04,570
trying to do, we should throw to the
side the old process. Absolutely.

377
00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:08,170
You know, this thing has to work
and perform at a different level.

378
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:12,970
So let's just start fresh
whiteboard what this could be.

379
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:15,910
I think we're going to get you know,
it's under construction now.

380
00:24:15,910 --> 00:24:19,810
Just topped out.
You know last week a very different

381
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:24,010
type of building that I think
for Under Armour's teammates is

382
00:24:24,010 --> 00:24:26,290
what they call their employees.
It's going to be very different

383
00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:29,170
experience working there.
They're creating performance apparel.

384
00:24:29,620 --> 00:24:38,180. In a performance building.
Interesting. Interesting. So. You.

385
00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:41,840
You decided to go with Gensler.
At the time I did, yes.

386
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,950
And, talk about, you know,
how you're.

387
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:49,280
Let's you were told by the other
firms you were going to do a

388
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,090
certain kind of ladder.
How did the ladder differ at

389
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:55,790
Gensler in your mind?
Well, you know, it was the 19 mid

390
00:24:55,790 --> 00:24:59,000
1990s were an amazing time to be
coming into this profession.

391
00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:04,040
And it was when firms were really
starting to think about technology

392
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,850
and they were making the investment
in computers and the software.

393
00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:10,940
And what I realized going all these
interviews, all these firms that

394
00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:15,800
invested in the technology and there
were computers at all the desks,

395
00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:18,890
you know, but people really
didn't know how to use them.

396
00:25:19,130 --> 00:25:22,700
And so I still had a lot to
learn about the profession.

397
00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:26,030
But one of the things I
specialized in it at in grad

398
00:25:26,030 --> 00:25:30,620
school at Penn was digital design.
So, you know,

399
00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:33,650
had something to give as well.
And when I came to Gensler,

400
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,730
it was this wild time where,
you know, it was like, what can

401
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:41,450
you do with that new technology?
So while I was learning about

402
00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:43,640
buildings coming,
how buildings go together,

403
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,420
I was able to help teach how we
could think differently about the

404
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:49,820
design process and what I found.
You know,

405
00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:53,000
the firm was a lot smaller then,
but we still had multiple offices.

406
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,140
I found other folks that were
like me coming out of school that

407
00:25:57,140 --> 00:26:02,240
had a similar mixed skill set.
So we banded together and created a

408
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,140
group where our goal was to make
Gensler a digital design firm.

409
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:10,700
And if we were truly successful, our
real goals would be our obsolescence.

410
00:26:11,540 --> 00:26:16,520
If we could get to the firm to
embrace digital design, which the

411
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,110
firm did, that we no longer need it
to be a special group on the side.

412
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:24,080
Why? Because everyone would.
Then be a mainstream. Right?

413
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,920
And so here we are now at this
point of inflection, you know,

414
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,240
28 years later, when there's
another technological wave that's

415
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,420
going to be massive disruption.
I and so I,

416
00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:38,360
I'm super excited by this.
And I'm finding that people coming

417
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:42,380
out of school, just like me,
28 years ago, have had a chance

418
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:45,500
to play in the sandbox.
So it's a chance for us to

419
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:49,910
actually have them, you know,
inform a change process.

420
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,620
So have you done any collaboration
with some of the big, you know,

421
00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:59,180
tech firms with regard to,
you know, how can you help us

422
00:26:59,180 --> 00:27:02,900
use AI most effectively? Yeah.
Well, it's interesting, you know,

423
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:05,900
it's I will say it actually predates,
you know I a little bit.

424
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:09,230
So we, we have an amazing team
in San Francisco.

425
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:15,320, what that was doing is Nvidia's
headquarters are and it's resulted.

426
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,420
The buildings are built now and
they're amazing.

427
00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:21,440
Nvidia's headquarters is absolutely
stunning, but it's, you know,

428
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,740
and it very much fits their brand.
But during that design process,

429
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:32,390, you know,
the the leadership of Nvidia,

430
00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:36,050
you know, really challenged us in a
good way to use their technology

431
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,270
together with what we're doing to
envision their space so that we're

432
00:27:41,270 --> 00:27:44,270
the team was able to get in there
before long before a shovel hit

433
00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:49,040
the ground and start to imagine,
you know, what it would be like,

434
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,120
but not just like a rendering.
It was like the actual daylight

435
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:57,050
modeling and moving through the
space as if it was built.

436
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:03,200
And so now you look at AI and what we
were doing as and this is what has

437
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,740
been phenomenal is because I think,
you know, we have this talent spread

438
00:28:06,740 --> 00:28:12,590
around the globe, is thinking
differently about the process as

439
00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:16,550
how can we experiment with this?
So how can we, you know,

440
00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:20,150
we call it the AI sandbox.
And we have some design

441
00:28:20,150 --> 00:28:24,980
technologies that we're mixing
in with design teams on select.

442
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,280
We're selecting some projects to
experiment on and we're just trying

443
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,890
a totally different process.
And the result is absolutely

444
00:28:32,890 --> 00:28:36,580
stunning.
You know what we're able to do

445
00:28:37,060 --> 00:28:39,610
and explore.
And it's very much an iterative

446
00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:41,860
process.
And I think a lot of people have

447
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:45,940
started to think of AI as, you know,
it kicks out great images.

448
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,510
We're looking at it differently.
We're saying, actually, what if it is

449
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:53,770
actually integral to the creative
process, iterative right from the

450
00:28:53,770 --> 00:28:59,590
beginning all the way through.
And it is transformational. Wow.

451
00:28:59,830 --> 00:29:04,720
So basically what it does is it
accelerates the creative process

452
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,260
a little bit then. Exactly.
Yeah, it accelerates it and it starts

453
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:13,570
to bring some opportunities for more
decisions to happen upstream. Okay.

454
00:29:13,570 --> 00:29:18,220
Which I think ultimately will allow
us to think differently about the

455
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:21,970
other stages of the design and.
Anticipate challenges that you're

456
00:29:21,970 --> 00:29:26,950
going to have ahead as things unfold.
Basically it does. Yeah, it does.

457
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:33,220
And if, if harnessed in a in a way
that it is truly a, it's enhancing

458
00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:37,510
the toolbox that are available to
architects and designers, then it

459
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:43,030
allows, you know, questions
to be asked and studied very,

460
00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:49,660
very early on in a, in a way that,
you know, can really consolidate,

461
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:53,950
you know, that front end of that
process which starts to say, okay,

462
00:29:53,950 --> 00:29:57,490
how do we use time differently?
It's such a precious commodity,

463
00:29:57,490 --> 00:29:58,420
right?
You know,

464
00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:01,870
how do we use time differently?
And we had a guy, by the way,

465
00:30:01,870 --> 00:30:06,280
that was transformational for us.
It's a colleague named Joseph came

466
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,860
to us from Disney eight years ago,
Disney Imagineering.

467
00:30:08,860 --> 00:30:13,660
And he was leading design technology.
So he was able to bring a lot of

468
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:17,050
that thinking in, because what
they were doing at an experiential

469
00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:21,310
level with new technologies,
and we see it, you know, that comes

470
00:30:21,310 --> 00:30:26,110
out in some of the amazing Pixar.
Yeah. Yeah. And it brought it in.

471
00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:31,180
And you know, even in the, in the,
in the, you know, the attractions and

472
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:33,790
experiences they get at the parks.
Right. Like the Star Wars land.

473
00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:36,700
He was involved in that.
And you come out and you start,

474
00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:40,330
you know, to say, okay,
some of those, those ways that the

475
00:30:40,330 --> 00:30:45,420
process was able to change their.
Could you change the, you know,

476
00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:50,790
conventional design process in a
way that kind of reimagines how

477
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:53,280
this could work.
And and it's actually worked out

478
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,010
phenomenal.
Yeah, I think of the term

479
00:30:56,010 --> 00:31:00,420
reverse engineering. Yeah, when I think of looking at the

480
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:05,100
future and what your ultimate goal
is, and then how do we bring all that

481
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:10,440
back to today and starting, you know,
with the fresh ideas using that

482
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,850
future technology there, you know,
essence. I agree with you 100%.

483
00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:17,670
I think you said it.
Well, like we we always we

484
00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:20,970
always try to look towards the
future horizon there and say,

485
00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:24,810
okay, what is 2030 look like.
So but we started that process

486
00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:27,780
in 2020, right.
And ironically we did the same thing

487
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:31,170
for we called it our vision 2020.
We did it in 2010.

488
00:31:31,170 --> 00:31:33,930
And it was interesting because
you set some kind of big hairy

489
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:38,340
audacious goals. There you go. Right.
And and I think we also talk about

490
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:41,490
them as Smart goals, you know,
specific measurable achievable

491
00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:46,950
with a realistic time frame.
You know and when we look at 2020,

492
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:48,900
you know, the majority of those
goals that we set in 2010,

493
00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:53,040
we were able to achieve.
And so we really challenged

494
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,620
ourselves in 2020,
where's the industry going to be?

495
00:31:55,980 --> 00:31:58,350
You know,
where's where's society going to be?

496
00:31:58,350 --> 00:32:04,140
How could we think about that power
of design to really better the world?

497
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,690
Was this before or after the
pandemic started?

498
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:09,930
Right during literally right as
the pandemic began,

499
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:13,260
we were all sitting at our respective
dining room tables and we said,

500
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:15,120
we can't miss the opportunity.
You know,

501
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,530
we're we're forced out of the office,
but we can still be together.

502
00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:24,090
And maybe now more than ever,
we really need to think hard

503
00:32:24,090 --> 00:32:29,300
about the future.
Yeah, it was disruptive and

504
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:33,170
sometimes disruptive times.
You know, you whiteboard that

505
00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:37,310
and say this is different.
Maybe we have to step back and

506
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:39,410
think a little differently going
forward potentially.

507
00:32:39,530 --> 00:32:42,200
Yeah I mean it's a real it's an
opportunity to not only think

508
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,140
differently but also collaborate
differently. Right.

509
00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:47,990
And you would ask, you know,
when I came here, so I came here

510
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:51,710
and I was doing the, you know, 28
years ago I was doing that, you know,

511
00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:56,510
kind of the mixed role, right, of,
you know, digital design and also

512
00:32:56,780 --> 00:33:00,530
very much involved in projects.
So it was an opportunity to really

513
00:33:00,530 --> 00:33:06,200
grow, you know, and learn, you know,
fast and became a design director

514
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,970
here and then started leading one
of our studios and then in 2008,

515
00:33:10,970 --> 00:33:15,200
had the opportunity with the business
partner here to lead the DC office.

516
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,840
And that was a phenomenal chance to
really think about not just design,

517
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,020
but what does it mean in this market?
What does it mean for us in the

518
00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:28,430
Washington DC metro area.
And, you know, we grew you know,

519
00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:33,260
certainly we had the challenging
times of the 0809, you know, crisis.

520
00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:37,370
But we grew,
we got into different practices and,

521
00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:41,960
you know, became the largest,
you know, more most impactful firm

522
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,400
design firm in this marketplace,
which was a phenomenal opportunity,

523
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,310
then passed the baton to take on
the global roles.

524
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:52,850
So you're a Washington native, or at
least Washington area native. Yes.

525
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,180
So let's think first principles
about Washington DC, because I want

526
00:33:56,180 --> 00:34:01,070
to get into where Washington, how
Washington has evolved. Yeah, sure.

527
00:34:01,070 --> 00:34:04,070
And where do you think
Washington should go?

528
00:34:05,270 --> 00:34:08,060, you know,
we all know that Washington, D.C. was

529
00:34:08,060 --> 00:34:12,910
built for one purpose, basically.
For the federal government on a

530
00:34:12,910 --> 00:34:16,870
swamp,
basically why it was situated here.

531
00:34:16,870 --> 00:34:18,790
Because George Washington liked
the site.

532
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:24,700
I think, you know, he surveyed
up and down the canal here and,

533
00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:28,900, you know, and it was right up
the river from where he lived,

534
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,380
although he never served here.
George John Adams was the first

535
00:34:32,380 --> 00:34:34,870
president that served in Washington,
D.C. historically.

536
00:34:34,870 --> 00:34:39,100
So it's interesting history there.
So talk about from a first

537
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:42,100
principle standpoint,
going to today about Washington,

538
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:46,450
D.C. from a design standpoint, it was
built to be the federal capital.

539
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,320
All the buildings are monumental,
at least in the mall in that area,

540
00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:56,020
the design thinking as it evolved
and then how it's transformed

541
00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:59,620
over the years into a, you know,
a different kind of city than

542
00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:02,050
what it was originally. Yeah.
You know, it's interesting, you know,

543
00:35:02,050 --> 00:35:05,710
we were talking earlier about,
you know, the power of, of,

544
00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:10,900
of kind of the human experience.
And you think about DC and scale and,

545
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,380
you know, whether, whether you're
down on the mall or you're on the

546
00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:18,190
other side of the river, say,
on the GW Parkway looking back.

547
00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:22,270
Right, there's a sense of scale in
this city that's really phenomenal.

548
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:27,400
And it's a very human scale city.
You know, the buildings with the

549
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,780
height limit, you know, you go into
the neighborhoods, you know, and you

550
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:35,620
get out of more the federal core.
What do you mean by human scale?

551
00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:38,830
Talk about that human scale.
I think it's it's a, you know,

552
00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:42,460
whether you walk on K Street,
like where we are sitting here today,

553
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:46,900
you know, or you go down, you know,
into DuPont Circle or Shaw or go

554
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,830
over to Northeast or Capitol Hill,
you know it.

555
00:35:50,830 --> 00:35:56,020
You know, there's a scale to this
city that doesn't feel overwhelming.

556
00:35:56,830 --> 00:36:00,250, the buildings have a certain
height, width of streets are,

557
00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:02,950
you know, there's kind of the
major and miners, right.

558
00:36:03,220 --> 00:36:06,460
And compare Chicago and New York
to Washington. Yeah.

559
00:36:06,460 --> 00:36:09,370
Different feeling, all different.
Yeah. And traveling globally.

560
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:13,120
You'll go to a Shanghai and there's
this kind of immense ness to that.

561
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,670
Right, you know, and you come

562
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:19,150
back to D.C. or actually, if you
go to Paris and obviously with,

563
00:36:19,180 --> 00:36:22,690
you know, the origins of the DC plan,
where it has kind of that connected.

564
00:36:22,690 --> 00:36:27,250
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, you can get a feel for,

565
00:36:27,250 --> 00:36:31,480
for some of those.
Cuz I think what excites us about

566
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,840
being in this city is that, you know,
when we're doing, you know,

567
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,860
projects that are repositioning
an existing building, you know,

568
00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:42,670
or doing a new neighborhood like
the yards down by the,

569
00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:47,020
the ballpark, you know,
we have to have that sense of scale

570
00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:52,150
in mind and appreciate it because
the way to unlock those sites.

571
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,890
Is to really understand the
surroundings.

572
00:36:57,100 --> 00:37:02,260
Understand how that particular
site plays in this urban fabric,

573
00:37:02,260 --> 00:37:06,610
because it's not just about a site,
especially here in D.C. it's

574
00:37:06,610 --> 00:37:10,330
about its connectivity to the
larger community around it.

575
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:14,020
So like the yards, I think was a
phenomenal opportunity because, you

576
00:37:14,020 --> 00:37:18,220
know, here it is on the riverfront,
you know, on the Anacostia River.

577
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:21,580
Everyone thinks about D.C. as a
Potomac River, you know, but it's

578
00:37:21,580 --> 00:37:26,050
really a two river town, right?
And it's there's this Navy yard

579
00:37:26,050 --> 00:37:29,020
that has this amazing, rich history
where they were building ships in

580
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:32,380
World War one and World War two.
You know, and they don't think

581
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:35,770
of D.C. as an industrial city.
But that was what was happening

582
00:37:35,770 --> 00:37:38,440
over there.
And it's become this great

583
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,710
neighborhood,
like a neighborhood where people are.

584
00:37:41,710 --> 00:37:44,410
There's a park for people to play.
There's a water's edge.

585
00:37:44,410 --> 00:37:47,920
People can walk on,
there's restaurants and, you know,

586
00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:53,140
and bars and there's, you know,
you know, mix of retail as well as

587
00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:56,980
different types of residential.
Well, adaptive reuse of some of

588
00:37:56,980 --> 00:37:59,470
the buildings there was fantastic.
Oh, thanks. Yeah.

589
00:37:59,470 --> 00:38:01,660
We loved doing that.
You know, being able to,

590
00:38:01,660 --> 00:38:04,690
you know, for us to get our hands
on an old boilermaker building.

591
00:38:04,690 --> 00:38:07,120
Right, you know,
or an old lumber shed building and

592
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,380
turn that into residential. Yeah.
You know, or or retail in the

593
00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:14,860
ground level and office above.
But what was interesting about that

594
00:38:14,860 --> 00:38:18,280
is because I remember, you know,
doing projects in DC, especially

595
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,690
those that are touching, you know,
kind of the historic corridors.

596
00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:25,450
You know, there's a whole series
of regulatory that you have to

597
00:38:25,450 --> 00:38:28,450
go through, right? Yeah.
And going through that, you know,

598
00:38:28,780 --> 00:38:31,000
a lot of people could think,
oh my gosh, it's such a process.

599
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:37,960
But it really causes an appreciation
of of the city and the scale and

600
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,220
the architecture that's there.
You know, and what's your you know,

601
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,050
you know what you're adding to that.
So the human scale back to that

602
00:38:47,050 --> 00:38:49,330
I think is really phenomenal
about this city.

603
00:38:49,330 --> 00:38:55,150
But it really was, you know for
me as a native of the area,

604
00:38:55,150 --> 00:39:01,750
the Olympic bid that we did, that was
one that I think unpacked a whole

605
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:08,110
series of issues and opportunities,
which we're seeing now play out that

606
00:39:08,110 --> 00:39:12,520
the master plan that was developed
for that was not so much about what

607
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,570
is the Olympics look like in DC.
We took the challenge that was given

608
00:39:16,570 --> 00:39:21,280
to us by the US Olympic Committee,
you know, and the bid process

609
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,250
that was led by, you know,
Russ Ramsey and Ted Leonsis and a

610
00:39:24,250 --> 00:39:28,750
crew of other, you know, public
and private leaders in this area.

611
00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:33,490
And, and we said essentially
what they're what they're asking

612
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:36,520
is they're really looking for
what's what's a what's a master

613
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,480
plan for the future of the city
where the Olympics, you know,

614
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,810
should it occur, could be a catalyst.
For that kind of development.

615
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,370
And so we laid out this plan together
with all the participating, you know,

616
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:52,670
folks that were involved and went up.
To Baltimore, didn't it?

617
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:56,450
The first one did that.
That was before us.

618
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:58,850
That was another Olympic bid
that was done earlier.

619
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:04,010, but this one was really around
DC. The immediate DC metro area.

620
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,210
And I remember there was a Washington
Post article that came out after,

621
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:10,400
you know, the Olympics were,
you know, was decided they were

622
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,680
going to be in LA.
And, it talked about how,

623
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:21,200
the plan that was drawn up for the
Olympics, shouldn't be lost

624
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:24,650
and how it really is a blueprint
for the future of the city.

625
00:40:25,470 --> 00:40:26,910
And I was like, okay,
well that's interesting.

626
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,120
So we've kept that in the back
of our mind and we've had these

627
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,000
opportunities to play with these,
you know, in these projects.

628
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,110
So when you're doing a project
like The yards or you're doing a,

629
00:40:37,110 --> 00:40:41,070
you know, a new building project
or renovation or reposition,

630
00:40:41,070 --> 00:40:44,550
it's thinking about how does it
fit into the bigger puzzle.

631
00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:48,000
So in my interviews with various
leaders around the region,

632
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,450
that plan has come up a couple
of times. Really are. Fabulous.

633
00:40:51,450 --> 00:40:58,710
And the context was interesting
in that Amazon, yes,

634
00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:02,460
was attracted here because of
some of the nature of that plan.

635
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:06,600
No kidding. Okay. I didn't know that.
That's phenomenal. Yeah, yeah.

636
00:41:06,990 --> 00:41:11,730
So the people at JBG Smith and
some of the planning area people

637
00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:15,570
from Northern Virginia,
when they were trying to pitch Amazon

638
00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:19,260
on their proposal, use some of
the using some of that storyline.

639
00:41:19,470 --> 00:41:23,130
Yeah. Storyline to to attract.
Yeah. That's phenomenal.

640
00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:26,490
Well, well it's interesting you
say that because one of the real

641
00:41:26,490 --> 00:41:30,000
wonderful things that came out
of that process,

642
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,040
and there was some amazing videos
done at the time, was that it's

643
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,450
really a city of neighborhoods, and so we talk about human scale,

644
00:41:39,450 --> 00:41:42,030
but okay, well,
what about the communities?

645
00:41:42,030 --> 00:41:45,810
And there's a whole series of
neighborhoods, and at the same time,

646
00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:48,210
there are neighborhoods that are
certainly thriving and there's

647
00:41:48,210 --> 00:41:53,670
neighborhoods that need help.
And how could opportunities at

648
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:58,260
scale like, like an Olympics,
or other opportunities that would

649
00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:03,600
come later, help create bridges,
you know, that bring those

650
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,380
neighborhoods, you know,
and connect them into the rest of the

651
00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:12,090
community in a meaningful and way
that was really about betterment.

652
00:42:12,510 --> 00:42:16,080
So over the last ten years,
site, in your mind,

653
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,940
what you think are the projects
that have been bridges and in your

654
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:24,720
in not only in, just in the city,
but maybe in the region that you

655
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:28,350
you believe are that catalyst.
Yeah, sure. Sure. Projects.

656
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:30,630
Well, I think that there's,
there's, there's a couple of

657
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:33,780
things that I think are important.
You know, part of this is,

658
00:42:33,780 --> 00:42:36,240
the connective, the pathways,
the pathway, you know,

659
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,930
the connective tissue that links
these neighborhoods.

660
00:42:39,930 --> 00:42:44,040
So being able to, you know,
look at the infrastructure

661
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,670
improvements that have helped,
you know, create the Anacostia

662
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:51,630
connection across. Right?
So the bridge network that's been

663
00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:56,370
redone, also creating an
appreciation of the water's edge.

664
00:42:56,370 --> 00:42:59,370
So that's been done both public
and private, right?

665
00:42:59,370 --> 00:43:01,890
Private development, you know,
that helped, for instance, at the

666
00:43:01,890 --> 00:43:06,060
Yards Public Park along, you know,
the way mixed in with another

667
00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:09,180
development over the ballpark. Right.
And then going around to the wharf.

668
00:43:09,180 --> 00:43:13,740
So you really have a water's
edge that is now, you know,

669
00:43:13,740 --> 00:43:17,130
you know, you know,
I'll call it habitable, right?

670
00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:19,980
You can walk on it,
you can sit there and spend a day,

671
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:23,160
you could live along it.
And you really, you know,

672
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,880
I remember one of the early,
early site visits down to, you know,

673
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:32,280
to the yards and, it was it
was there was nothing, you know,

674
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:37,950
it was abandoned, industrial and, there was a lot of pollution.

675
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:41,550
And I go down there now and it's
really a source of pride for what

676
00:43:41,550 --> 00:43:44,820
we were able to do, you know?
But it wouldn't have happened,

677
00:43:44,820 --> 00:43:47,670
and none of this would have happened.
And I think one of the this was

678
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:50,130
probably part of the power of
the Olympic bid effort,

679
00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:55,470
was it brought together public and
private sector for a common goal.

680
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,840
You know, and that was powerful
because it was no longer at that

681
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,130
particular moment about D.C.,
Maryland, Virginia. Right.

682
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,390
It was let's all be together and
sit around the table and figure

683
00:44:09,390 --> 00:44:11,580
this stuff out.
And some of those meetings were

684
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:16,890
incredibly inspiring because it was
looking at the future, not the past.

685
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,340
When did that when was that unveiled,
that that plan? Do you remember that?

686
00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:24,090
What year it was.
Like 2013 through 2015? Okay.

687
00:44:24,090 --> 00:44:27,690
Yeah, that was right before the
Amazon search basically. Yeah. Yeah.

688
00:44:27,690 --> 00:44:30,000
Yeah I there's a drawing I have
on my wall.

689
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,150
That's one of the ones where it
really reimagines, you know,

690
00:44:33,150 --> 00:44:37,530
it's a, it's a looking from the
east side of the city, you know,

691
00:44:37,530 --> 00:44:40,860
out over past, you know,
a little bit east of RFK,

692
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,420
up above, looking west.
And you see all this stuff, East.

693
00:44:45,420 --> 00:44:48,060
Capitol Street looking down there.
Looking down East Capitol

694
00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:51,480
looking towards the monuments.
But you in that you see the Anacostia

695
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,050
River, both sides of the riverbank.
You see the path network,

696
00:44:55,050 --> 00:44:58,710
you see the bridge,
reference that I made earlier.

697
00:44:59,070 --> 00:45:02,940, you see the development all the
way across to the Virginia side.

698
00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:08,850
And, you know, I look at that and
I just there's a lot of pride

699
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,700
when I see those images. Yes.
We did not get the Olympics.

700
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:16,320
Hopefully one day we we will.
But a lot of what was set out in

701
00:45:16,350 --> 00:45:20,640
there, to your point has helped, really re-energize aspects

702
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:25,350
of this community.
So Gensler recently published

703
00:45:25,350 --> 00:45:29,280
the eight Trends Shaping Design
in 2020 for sure.

704
00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:33,720
Perhaps highlight them and share your
thoughts about them in context of the

705
00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:37,710
DC area markets with examples your
firm has engendered. Yeah, sure.

706
00:45:37,710 --> 00:45:42,420
So, we have this wonderful
publication, you know,

707
00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:47,220
where we put it out and, you know,
we we as a firm, we came up with

708
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:50,790
the idea of design forecast
several years ago when, you know,

709
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:53,820
we were putting out we had been
putting out like annual reports,

710
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,760, and was like annual reports
are looking backwards. Right.

711
00:45:56,970 --> 00:45:59,970
Design forecast would be an idea.
Let's look forwards.

712
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:05,400
So one of the things, you know,
is I'll give you a couple of the,

713
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:09,930
of the trends that we, we talk about.
One is the notion of like 20

714
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:13,080
minute cities.
It's the idea of, you know,

715
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,830
bringing together, you know,
within a radius, live, work and

716
00:46:16,830 --> 00:46:21,720
play in a, in a way that, you know,
from the business community, they're

717
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,260
plugging into the fabric. It's there.
There's a range of living

718
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:28,260
options that allow people that
would be working, you know,

719
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:33,630
in that area to be able to also
live in that area by 20 minutes.

720
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:37,950
20 minutes was, you know,
it's actually come out in so

721
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:39,600
many different funny way.
I remember when we started

722
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,630
talking about it that was coming
out in different circles as well.

723
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:47,400, it's walkable, it's achievable, from a transit scenario,

724
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,930
you're not having to rely on some
of the long commute, you know,

725
00:46:51,930 --> 00:46:56,760
you know, what I say vehicles.
But it could be different means

726
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,290
of transit that that push so
much time on the individual.

727
00:47:01,290 --> 00:47:04,920
So Jody McClain told me in her
interview with Jody's fantastic.

728
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,020
Yeah.
She says she looks for 17 to 18

729
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:13,080
minute increments with regard to
staying at the shop property.

730
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,870
So she wants to keep her customers
there, but she also wants to be

731
00:47:15,870 --> 00:47:19,410
within 17 minutes of most of her
customers in her projects,

732
00:47:19,410 --> 00:47:21,420
which is. Yeah.
And, you know, Jody,

733
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:23,880
I think a perfect example of
that is union market. Right.

734
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,330
And we've had a wonderful opportunity
to work with her and her team there

735
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,230
and, and also other developers there.
And I would consider that a perfect

736
00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:35,820
example of this, you know, but also,
I can remember the union market where

737
00:47:35,820 --> 00:47:42,030
my uncle had a warehouse down there
and, you know, here it is now

738
00:47:42,030 --> 00:47:46,200
is a desired place to be going,
whether you're going there to eat on

739
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,240
a Saturday or to actually live or to,
say, work at the Single Signal House

740
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:55,200
building that we, we designed. Yeah.
Thanks. That's great. Great project.

741
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,280
But it was a different approach to
it had to fit into that community.

742
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:05,070
Another one, you know conversions.
So resurrecting stranded assets so

743
00:48:05,070 --> 00:48:11,850
that for us, you know, it was,
a really, you know, a moment,

744
00:48:11,850 --> 00:48:15,510
during the, during the, you know,
kind of the end of the pandemic when

745
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:20,370
we had a colleague in our Toronto
office who was just looking at these

746
00:48:20,370 --> 00:48:23,940
opportunities to convert office, that, you know, you know,

747
00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:28,500
underutilized office buildings into, into residential.

748
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,640, and he was, you know, similarly
to what I was talking about earlier,

749
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,210
where we were rethinking the
design process in the mid 90s.

750
00:48:36,210 --> 00:48:38,850
He was rethinking the process to
study this stuff.

751
00:48:38,850 --> 00:48:42,120
He's like, why does it take so
long in the marketplace for people

752
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,640
to know whether this is right,
this building is right or not?

753
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:49,530
So he developed an algorithm that
analyzed properties quickly.

754
00:48:49,530 --> 00:48:51,960
And it's not just about the building,
but it's also about that

755
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,770
building's location, you know,
and its position in its community.

756
00:48:56,390 --> 00:49:00,740
And, that was, you know,
really was like,

757
00:49:00,740 --> 00:49:04,850
spread like wildfire.
And, we all of a sudden were

758
00:49:04,850 --> 00:49:07,760
getting approached by, you know,
developers and say, hey,

759
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,490
I have a 50 building portfolio
in these different cities.

760
00:49:10,490 --> 00:49:14,810
What buildings would be right
for conversion to residential?

761
00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:18,260
And we could do this analysis very
quickly and come back and say, oh,

762
00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:22,170
you know what? These 24 buildings.
Would be ripe for it.

763
00:49:22,170 --> 00:49:27,060
And this is why.
And that in a very consolidated

764
00:49:27,060 --> 00:49:29,370
time frame.
You know, and it's not, by the way,

765
00:49:29,370 --> 00:49:32,370
it's not just, you know,
now we're seeing some real great

766
00:49:32,370 --> 00:49:35,190
projects emerge from this.
It's not just about office to

767
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:38,010
residential.
It's also about think about

768
00:49:38,010 --> 00:49:42,030
stranded assets in general,
big box retail that become new

769
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:46,590
experiential destination regional
malls. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

770
00:49:46,860 --> 00:49:49,440
And they become like some of them,
you know, we've turned into like

771
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,970
amazing like health and wellness
clinics, you know, or experiential

772
00:49:53,970 --> 00:49:57,510
or sport related. Right.
And I was so stranded assets in

773
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:59,190
general.
The conversion opportunity I

774
00:49:59,190 --> 00:50:01,290
think is huge.
The other thing, you know,

775
00:50:01,290 --> 00:50:05,850
design forecasts we talk quite a bit
about now is experience multipliers.

776
00:50:06,620 --> 00:50:10,400
You know, and thinking about.
Yeah, it's kind of the, taking

777
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,360
advantage of kind of the crisis
stack and looking at experience

778
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,440
multipliers and thinking about,
you know, how people are really,

779
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,060
you know, how can people can
interact with a place or a space.

780
00:50:23,060 --> 00:50:27,020
And if you do it in a way and you
create these layers, there's

781
00:50:27,020 --> 00:50:30,170
opportunities to create a richness
dive. Into that a little deeper.

782
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:33,260
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
So I think I'll use,

783
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:37,460
I'll use an example that we're
seeing more frequently now with,

784
00:50:37,460 --> 00:50:43,190, some of our sports clients
who've recognized that, actually.

785
00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:47,760
The value isn't just about the
sports team.

786
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:51,930
It's actually about the
experiences that can be created,

787
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:58,080
you know, in and around the venue.
So how can that just be, not be,

788
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,030
I should say, kind of the, you know,
venue that's used, you know,

789
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:06,750
periodically for sports event.
How can that really be, you know,

790
00:51:06,750 --> 00:51:10,170
an engine for a vibrant sports and
entertainment mixed use district.

791
00:51:10,590 --> 00:51:14,610
That's experience multipliers.
So you certainly have a venue for

792
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,830
say hockey or basketball, you know,
or a venue for football or soccer.

793
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,360
But all of a sudden, now you have
a whole, vibrant, you know,

794
00:51:25,450 --> 00:51:31,450, you know, surround that is, you know, entertainment beyond

795
00:51:31,450 --> 00:51:34,480
that could be live music mixed in,
you know, think of the wharf.

796
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,980, it could be great restaurants, and different venues,

797
00:51:38,980 --> 00:51:42,430
with office and residential mixed in.
Think of the hub on the Causeway

798
00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:45,340
project that we did.
If you think of TD garden,

799
00:51:45,610 --> 00:51:49,360
that arena was basically just
the arena that had a whole slew

800
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,800
of transit issues in and around
it and entry and exit issues.

801
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,550
And so the hub on Causeway was
taking the land right around that,

802
00:51:57,550 --> 00:52:02,950
creating a new front door for that
arena that linked together and

803
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:07,420
solve some of the transit issues,
created a vibrant,

804
00:52:07,420 --> 00:52:12,280
active ground plane, you know, with,
with different types of venues,

805
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,640
you know, in terms of restaurant and,
you know, different types of

806
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:20,590
experiential entertainment type
zones, and office above,

807
00:52:20,590 --> 00:52:24,580
and there's residential there as
well. And now it's a great scene.

808
00:52:24,820 --> 00:52:27,820
That's an experience multiplier.
It seems to me what you're talking

809
00:52:27,820 --> 00:52:32,470
about is a hospitality mindset.
So in essence, you know,

810
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:36,810
you're looking at what is the
customer experience. So what?

811
00:52:36,810 --> 00:52:41,010
When somebody comes to a place,
what's in their mind?

812
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,530
What do they want to experience?
What?

813
00:52:43,530 --> 00:52:46,350
What would be optimal for that
customer?

814
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,180
So reverse engineering that thought
process to me is what you want

815
00:52:51,180 --> 00:52:54,210
to accomplish in real estate.
And in. General, and.

816
00:52:54,210 --> 00:52:57,900
Do it in a way where you're
creating a little bit more of

817
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:01,380
surprise and delight. Exactly.
And when you can do that,

818
00:53:01,380 --> 00:53:03,570
that's what.
That's what a hotel operator wants.

819
00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:08,130
And then you think about what does
that mean for beyond a singular

820
00:53:08,130 --> 00:53:11,460
engagement, it's people that want
to come back. That's right. Right.

821
00:53:11,460 --> 00:53:13,680
So, you know, I'll give you an
example because I think you're

822
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,880
absolutely right on hospitality, you know, hospitality infused

823
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,690
into workplace, into residential.
It's that's an experience multiplier.

824
00:53:22,050 --> 00:53:24,240, the Marriott headquarters,
which we were designing.

825
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,960
Loved it. No. Thank you. Yeah.
You know, it is, you know,

826
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,660
plugging into an existing urban
context, right.

827
00:53:30,660 --> 00:53:33,510
And there's a 12 story hotel
that we did along.

828
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:38,910
You know, next to it is the 22 story,
you know, new Marriott building,

829
00:53:38,910 --> 00:53:43,620
where they put their offices in.
But what they, what they do every

830
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:47,490
day is hospitality, of course.
So that space should just ooze

831
00:53:47,490 --> 00:53:50,640
hospitality.
And you know, one of the things I

832
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,340
loved about their leadership that
they committed to is that the ground

833
00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:57,450
floor and the it was going to
be very experiential for anybody.

834
00:53:57,660 --> 00:54:01,650
So there's a great public plaza,
the restaurants and bars that are

835
00:54:01,650 --> 00:54:05,700
part of the hotel spill out to that.
There's a cafe coffee shop that's

836
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:09,210
part of the headquarters building
that spills out to that as well.

837
00:54:09,210 --> 00:54:12,060
And then there's this great
opportunity to tell the Marriott

838
00:54:12,060 --> 00:54:14,430
story.
So there's a cultural overlay to,

839
00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:16,740
you know, here's this amazing,
you know, it's the largest

840
00:54:16,740 --> 00:54:21,210
hospitality brand in the world.
And they're here,

841
00:54:21,390 --> 00:54:24,660
they're right in our back door, and their backyard.

842
00:54:24,660 --> 00:54:28,290
And, and then there's this,
great place.

843
00:54:28,290 --> 00:54:30,900
So, you know,
my my favorite thing when we open

844
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:34,530
this was I remember going there just
right before the grand opening,

845
00:54:34,650 --> 00:54:37,920
and there's all these people that
were sitting outdoor dining at the

846
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,380
hotel because the hotel opened
right before the main building,

847
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:45,330
and there was a family,
and the family happened to walk

848
00:54:45,330 --> 00:54:49,660
into the headquarters building.
They didn't know that it was an

849
00:54:49,660 --> 00:54:53,170
office building and they walked
in because it's it's communal.

850
00:54:53,260 --> 00:54:55,780
You can walk through.
And they walked into this area,

851
00:54:55,780 --> 00:55:00,700
which is kind of like this passageway
which has this whole cultural wall.

852
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:03,010
And that leads to this coffee shop.
Right?

853
00:55:03,310 --> 00:55:08,080
And they were the their kids were
sitting there like just, you know,

854
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,500
immersed in this. Sure. Right.
And I was like, okay, well,

855
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:16,290
that's something different.
Right and all that has to work

856
00:55:16,290 --> 00:55:21,360
together, you know,
and I find that as a firm now,

857
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,750
we're really having these
opportunities across the board.

858
00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:29,760
So this could be in, you know, India.
This could be, you know,

859
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,540
in Tokyo now or on the streets
of London where we get these

860
00:55:33,540 --> 00:55:36,990
opportunities to think about that.
What does it mean to mix these

861
00:55:36,990 --> 00:55:42,270
practices together and layer these
experiences in a way that thinks

862
00:55:42,270 --> 00:55:48,450
about architecture as more of a
stage for powerful experiences?

863
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,110
So other opportunities in
Washington that you're seeing in

864
00:55:53,110 --> 00:55:55,960
in that in that respect,
what what what are you seeing as

865
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,300
far as those other elements?
Yeah, I think the I mean,

866
00:55:58,300 --> 00:56:03,460
we're seeing it, you know, I would
say in the sports and entertainment

867
00:56:03,460 --> 00:56:07,540
world for sure, you know, you know,
you mentioned, you know,

868
00:56:07,540 --> 00:56:12,220
the war, we're seeing it, in, in the development,

869
00:56:12,220 --> 00:56:14,500
you know, around the ballpark,
which we had a chance to do that

870
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:17,770
master plan work ages ago,
long before any of those

871
00:56:17,770 --> 00:56:20,650
residential buildings were in.
It was just the ballpark.

872
00:56:20,650 --> 00:56:24,340
And, you know,
it's it's a wonderful.

873
00:56:24,580 --> 00:56:27,430
You know, it's a wonderful feeling
for us to go down there as a,

874
00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:32,050
you know, from anyone here and see
how that's grown and know that,

875
00:56:32,050 --> 00:56:35,920
you know, what,
the master plan set out an idea,

876
00:56:36,460 --> 00:56:41,050, that it's that you could have
these experiences game day or not.

877
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:44,520
And it could still be a
wonderful place to be.

878
00:56:44,550 --> 00:56:48,630
Well, the east end of Washington
grew. I moved here in 1985.

879
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:52,220
Oh, wow. Okay, so.
You know, if you want,

880
00:56:52,220 --> 00:56:56,030
east of 14th Street.
In 1985, it was no man's land,

881
00:56:56,030 --> 00:57:01,550
basically in Washington, D.C..
And then what we saw was an assembly

882
00:57:01,550 --> 00:57:07,340
of of sites in the office sector,
you know, north to mass and then

883
00:57:07,340 --> 00:57:11,840
down basically to, you know,
the mall going east.

884
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,700
And one area that really blossomed
right after the financial control

885
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:21,230
board kind of went away and Tony
Williams became mayor was Gallery

886
00:57:21,230 --> 00:57:24,320
place and that whole area there.
Yeah.

887
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,910
And now we're looking at a
potential change in that area,

888
00:57:28,940 --> 00:57:32,960
be due to the fact that the owner
of the Wizards and the capitals

889
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,860
decided to want to move to Virginia,
although that may not happen now

890
00:57:36,860 --> 00:57:40,250
with some of the financial issues,
but who knows?

891
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:45,260
But now there's a new vision being
considered for that part of the city.

892
00:57:45,260 --> 00:57:47,600
What what?
It's Gensler involved in that

893
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,080
process, or is there any involvement
in that, or are you thinking about

894
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,220
it for anybody else? I think.
You know, we look at, you know,

895
00:57:55,220 --> 00:58:00,260
the city as and when I say city two,
it's also, again,

896
00:58:00,260 --> 00:58:03,740
from those experiences that I
mentioned earlier on, you know,

897
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:08,390
it's it's Maryland, D.C., Virginia.
Like, we we look at it as kind of

898
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:12,560
a region, the region, you know,
and, you know, for instance,

899
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,500
I'll give you an example, you know, we have we've had

900
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:18,920
a Baltimore office for years.
Our Baltimore office is right

901
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,260
next to the Inner Harbor. Right.
You know,

902
00:58:21,260 --> 00:58:24,410
you certainly have seen what's
happened to the Inner Harbor, right?

903
00:58:24,770 --> 00:58:27,560,
and so now we have the opportunity

904
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:34,220
to be really a lead voice in that
master plan and that development

905
00:58:34,220 --> 00:58:38,000
of the inner harbor that will then
stretch over towards the stadium.

906
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,390
Is David Bramble working with you?
Yes. Okay. Yeah.

907
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:43,520
And it's going to be
interviewing him soon.

908
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:48,890
Oh, he's a phenomenal, visionary.
And I think that, you know,

909
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:54,110
that's we look at that as, okay,
that's not just Baltimore,

910
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:59,330
that's this whole area. Right? Right.
And so success there really is

911
00:58:59,330 --> 00:59:02,720
an enabler for further
connectivity in this area.

912
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,470
So in DC, you know, there's there's
going to be movement of, you know,

913
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:10,370
different venues, different,
you know, educational opportunities.

914
00:59:10,370 --> 00:59:12,500
I mean look at look at the museum,
right.

915
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,570
You know,
and how that's been repurposed.

916
00:59:14,690 --> 00:59:19,640, so, being able to think about
cities with a level of agility,

917
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,560
you know, from a design standpoint, and knowing that,

918
00:59:24,890 --> 00:59:29,240
when we have projects,
there are opportunities to ask

919
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,820
key questions early on.
And one of my favorite questions that

920
00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:35,540
we've been asking a lot lately is
when there's an existing building on

921
00:59:35,540 --> 00:59:39,800
the site, like one that was down at, you know, there was a down at,

922
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:45,140, for us near the white House, and it was like,

923
00:59:45,140 --> 00:59:49,310
should we tear this down and
build a new building,

924
00:59:49,310 --> 00:59:53,240
which was what was being asked of us?
And we're like, maybe.

925
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,450
Maybe not.
Maybe it's a better sustainable

926
00:59:56,450 --> 01:00:00,350
story, to not think about always

927
01:00:00,350 --> 01:00:04,710
building new.
Well, that's that opens up an

928
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:08,850
interesting line of questioning
that I want to maybe think about.

929
01:00:09,090 --> 01:00:12,510
And this is a vision I've had as
a real estate person.

930
01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:18,690
And thinking about the federal
government's, you know, occupancy in

931
01:00:18,690 --> 01:00:25,230
the city is now sub 40, 30% even.
And there are large owned office

932
01:00:25,230 --> 01:00:29,800
buildings south of the mall.
South of the Smithsonian.

933
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,800
There's probably half a dozen
buildings that are over half

934
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,320
1,000,000ft² down there that are
probably less than 20%, if not 10%,

935
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,870
occupied during the day.
So they're way underutilized

936
01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:47,560
there on federal land.
So there's no tax income for the

937
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:53,570
city from it.
So my big idea there is to GSA to do

938
01:00:53,570 --> 01:01:00,190
a swap with the city for the land.
Put it back in the tax rolls, somehow

939
01:01:00,190 --> 01:01:03,610
pay for the demolition of those
and basically turn over that land,

940
01:01:03,610 --> 01:01:08,260
either lease it back somehow and
structure it, but open the door

941
01:01:08,260 --> 01:01:13,600
for a huge RFP opportunity there,
similar to the wharf of the

942
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:18,940
Anacostia Waterfront Commission,
and redevelop everything from sea

943
01:01:18,970 --> 01:01:25,390
southwest down basically through De
la Plaza in down towards the wharf,

944
01:01:25,390 --> 01:01:31,300
down probably from third or fourth
Street, all the way over to what is

945
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:36,760
12th, let's say that whole swath
just redevelop that whole area.

946
01:01:36,940 --> 01:01:41,320
Can you redevelop those existing
buildings? I don't know.

947
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,630
So the question is,
can you reuse those buildings?

948
01:01:43,630 --> 01:01:46,480
I'm not sure you can.
The HUD building is perhaps one

949
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,850
of the ugliest buildings I've
ever seen in my life,

950
01:01:48,850 --> 01:01:52,150
other than the FBI building,
which people think is even worse.

951
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:56,020
Yeah, but, you know, those are
brutalist designs that, you know, can

952
01:01:56,020 --> 01:02:00,520
you repurpose brutalist buildings?
I well, we did we did one

953
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,550
actually talk about the,
you know, where the MPAA is,

954
01:02:03,550 --> 01:02:09,520
Motion Picture Association, you know,
which is, 16th and I. Okay.

955
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:14,200
And that was a,
kind of the classic brutalist,

956
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:19,510
you know, grid building. Okay.
And, it turned its back to the

957
01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:25,600
street at the ground level, and they
Motion Picture Association, you know,

958
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,860
wanted to stay in the building, but they also wanted to make the

959
01:02:29,860 --> 01:02:37,090
building, you know, user friendly.
And so what we looked at is, you

960
01:02:37,090 --> 01:02:40,360
know, it was actually a phenomenal
study because you talked about

961
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,110
earlier about architecture being
this kind of blend of disciplines.

962
01:02:44,110 --> 01:02:49,930
Well, the building, the entire grid
on the front was like a giant truss.

963
01:02:50,740 --> 01:02:52,810
So you can't go hacking away the
structure.

964
01:02:52,810 --> 01:02:54,700
Otherwise the building is going
to come down.

965
01:02:54,910 --> 01:03:02,410
So how do you embrace that?
You know, give it a, a an overlay and

966
01:03:02,410 --> 01:03:06,010
a different way of thinking about
how to break down that scale and

967
01:03:06,010 --> 01:03:08,830
then where it meets the ground.
How do we actually where it was

968
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:15,310
literally a sunken, inset,
ground level that you couldn't even

969
01:03:15,310 --> 01:03:20,170
reach to actually make, you know,
two front doors to the building,

970
01:03:20,170 --> 01:03:26,560
one on 16th and one on High Street,
and create a landscaping and site

971
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,980
strategy and a new skin strategy down
there that really just make this

972
01:03:29,980 --> 01:03:34,150
thing very accessible and inviting, and it worked.

973
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,210, and you had to have people
that were willing to play ball.

974
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:42,130
You also had to have going through,
you know, the city folks that

975
01:03:42,130 --> 01:03:45,070
were willing to, you know,
say that, okay, well, actually,

976
01:03:45,070 --> 01:03:48,280
this can make this building,
better. Contributor.

977
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:53,780
To the that's urban fabric than
what it was before.

978
01:03:53,780 --> 01:03:56,690
But to your you know,
to your point, there's all those

979
01:03:56,690 --> 01:04:00,200
buildings over there and it does
need some creative thinking.

980
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,870
You know, frankly,
no question where the wharf is.

981
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:08,060
All that area was, it was federal.
Yeah. So it was a triple P. Yeah.

982
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,810
Project that made that all work.
So that's what we need,

983
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:16,010
you know, potentially over here, but you know,

984
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:19,580
there is that question.
I think it's an interesting one to

985
01:04:19,580 --> 01:04:22,850
think about, which is, you know,
some of these buildings,

986
01:04:22,850 --> 01:04:27,550
you know, when we look at them.
They may not pencil out.

987
01:04:28,830 --> 01:04:31,950
So other ways to incentivize the
development.

988
01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:34,950
You know,
from a public financing side.

989
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:38,190
Well, my thought is if you
convert that to private land,

990
01:04:38,820 --> 01:04:41,550
that's the way to do it because
then you get private sector

991
01:04:41,550 --> 01:04:45,150
investment in the property. Yeah.
And if you can do it with

992
01:04:45,150 --> 01:04:48,660
federal incentives, even better.
Yeah. There you. Are.

993
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:53,160
So you clean up a mess and it's
a win win win across the board.

994
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,390
It's going to take a tremendous
amount of leadership and and

995
01:04:57,390 --> 01:05:01,650
creative thinking and sure.
And the right people to meet

996
01:05:01,650 --> 01:05:04,770
with the right people, you have
to get the white House involved.

997
01:05:04,770 --> 01:05:07,140
You have to get Congress and you,
Bob, and you have to get the

998
01:05:07,140 --> 01:05:09,240
city government involved.
They all have to be on the same

999
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,680
page and think through how this
is going to create a lot of value

1000
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:18,270
for the city and for the federal
government and the city government,

1001
01:05:18,270 --> 01:05:21,000
everybody and the region.
I mean,

1002
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,870
it has to be looked at holistically.
And to your point, though, you know,

1003
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:31,440
there's a lot of, you know,
these buildings that are not occupied

1004
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:36,600
to any. Functional. Either. Yeah.
I mean, and they're big buildings,

1005
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,320
right? They're big buildings. Yeah.
I do think, though, that,

1006
01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:47,100
there is, that is, you know,
for DC there, there will continue to

1007
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:54,410
be that opportunity to reimagine
inevitably. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So.

1008
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:59,650
You spoke recently at the July
Washington Future Forum about

1009
01:05:59,650 --> 01:06:03,670
the future and espoused the
phrase architecture of optimism.

1010
01:06:04,930 --> 01:06:08,710, perhaps elaborate on that theme
and cite opportunities for urban

1011
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:13,240
planning that will excite real estate
residents and residents, workers,

1012
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,180
tourists and just wanderers to the
value of the built environment,

1013
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:19,300
the city? Yeah.
That was I really enjoyed doing that

1014
01:06:19,300 --> 01:06:24,670
talk at Uli because I really have
found through my work, you know,

1015
01:06:24,670 --> 01:06:29,140
with colleagues here at Gensler that, you know, we've been playing

1016
01:06:29,140 --> 01:06:33,550
in that, you know, in that
world of optimism for a while and

1017
01:06:33,550 --> 01:06:37,960
to figure out how does it manifest
itself in the built environment.

1018
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,470
I actually think it's a
phenomenal opportunity to kind

1019
01:06:41,470 --> 01:06:46,000
of explore and think differently
about how we look at design.

1020
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:51,340
So, you know, if you look at the
definition of optimism, it's,

1021
01:06:51,340 --> 01:06:53,950
you know, to be able to bring
hopefulness and confidence about

1022
01:06:53,950 --> 01:06:59,420
the future, right. And.
How do you do that in architecture?

1023
01:06:59,930 --> 01:07:06,740
So I'll give you an example, we I was in Miami last week,

1024
01:07:06,740 --> 01:07:10,520
and we were having some,
meetings last, you know, there.

1025
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:15,170
And, one of the days we met, we used a space at a new

1026
01:07:15,170 --> 01:07:20,210
school that we had worked on.
It's a new six through 12th

1027
01:07:20,210 --> 01:07:26,000
grade campus.
And, it was,

1028
01:07:26,750 --> 01:07:31,460
about a 5 to 6 acre site.
And sites in Miami are getting harder

1029
01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:35,420
and harder to find because it's
one of the few growth markets you

1030
01:07:35,420 --> 01:07:43,430
know around. And in that school.
You know, when I remember when they

1031
01:07:43,430 --> 01:07:46,760
first approached us to design this
right in the middle of the pandemic,

1032
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,460
when people weren't even in schools.
Right.

1033
01:07:49,460 --> 01:07:55,160
And the, they said, we really
we want to do this new school,

1034
01:07:56,150 --> 01:08:01,940
privately funded, new venture,
we want to we want parents to feel

1035
01:08:01,940 --> 01:08:05,480
like they would want their kids to be
here. We want it to be a need blind.

1036
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,640, campus.
And we want it to be something

1037
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:13,480
where the students, you know,
feel that wherever they're going,

1038
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,210
wherever they're looking,
if they're in the middle school and

1039
01:08:16,210 --> 01:08:18,670
they look over to the high school,
that's aspirational.

1040
01:08:18,910 --> 01:08:21,700
They want to make it through middle
school because they want to be in

1041
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:26,380
that building over there. Right.
And you know the parents who

1042
01:08:26,380 --> 01:08:28,420
drive up,
they want their kids to be in there.

1043
01:08:28,420 --> 01:08:32,560
So you know there's how do you create
that architecture of optimism.

1044
01:08:32,860 --> 01:08:35,680
And when we looked at the site
and we're looking at this,

1045
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:41,200
this amazing old tree that was at
the center of the site, and you

1046
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,980
had to get past all this, like
some of this overgrowth to see it.

1047
01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:48,790
And I was like, well, okay, that
should be the heart of the campus.

1048
01:08:49,330 --> 01:08:55,570
And so the campus really is a
series of buildings that are kind

1049
01:08:55,570 --> 01:08:58,480
of worked their way, you know,
at the kind of, you know, they're

1050
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:02,950
oriented around this courtyard.
And this courtyard becomes kind

1051
01:09:02,950 --> 01:09:06,190
of this magical heart.
Beautiful soft scape and hard scape.

1052
01:09:06,190 --> 01:09:08,200
You know, there's outdoor
classroom that's a part of it.

1053
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,570
There's all these outdoor eating
areas,

1054
01:09:10,570 --> 01:09:16,340
areas for students to sit on a lawn.
And the view corridors from one

1055
01:09:16,340 --> 01:09:20,840
building to the next are all done.
So the students sitting in the

1056
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,130
common area in the middle school,
you know, when they look out that

1057
01:09:25,130 --> 01:09:28,550
window to looking across that
beautiful courtyard and they're

1058
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:33,980
seeing an enhanced, you know,
multi-level common room in the

1059
01:09:33,980 --> 01:09:37,430
high school. Interesting. Right.
So the middle school feels like

1060
01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:39,860
a high school.
The high school feels like a college.

1061
01:09:40,220 --> 01:09:45,560
And the common spaces, the dining
areas, the the spaces where the,

1062
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:47,600
you know, the multi-purpose room,
the things together.

1063
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,610
It feels like you could be in a
food hall.

1064
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,020
And so to your earlier comment
about hospitality,

1065
01:09:54,230 --> 01:09:57,620
it's a chance to, you know,
start to think about that multiplier.

1066
01:09:57,620 --> 01:10:00,710
How do we bring what we in the best,
you know of our education talent, the

1067
01:10:00,710 --> 01:10:07,010
best of our hospitality talent master
planning to the table so everyone's

1068
01:10:07,010 --> 01:10:10,580
pulling from their skill set to
try to create something different.

1069
01:10:10,580 --> 01:10:12,830
So back to that architecture of
optimism.

1070
01:10:12,830 --> 01:10:18,200
To me that's an example of doing it.
And it's and it feels like that

1071
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,770
the best projects these days
aren't aren't one liners.

1072
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:24,170
There are multiple chapters of a
book.

1073
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:31,160
So is there a site in Washington
that you would use as a center

1074
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,980
centerpiece for something like that,
or that thought process?

1075
01:10:33,980 --> 01:10:38,240
Well, there's sites that I've
certainly traveled around, you know,

1076
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,690
as I as I've grown up in this
city and the surrounding area,

1077
01:10:41,780 --> 01:10:44,210
driven around many times.
And I'll tell you a couple,

1078
01:10:44,210 --> 01:10:49,220
one that I always look at and
I'm like, I think about,

1079
01:10:49,220 --> 01:10:53,390
you know, for instance,
the Kennedy Center to, you know,

1080
01:10:53,390 --> 01:10:58,750
East, you know, towards 23rd Street.
And you have these all these highways

1081
01:10:58,750 --> 01:11:02,800
that prevents you from getting from,
you know, like GW's campus to

1082
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:07,980
the water. Go.
Why not look at going over that,

1083
01:11:08,430 --> 01:11:14,370
right. Taking some of the road work.
Create a new kind of western lawn

1084
01:11:15,210 --> 01:11:18,870
right. For that part of the city.
The same thing is over.

1085
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:22,740, you know, as you get towards,
you know, as East Capitol Street

1086
01:11:22,740 --> 01:11:27,390
goes out and kind of crosses over, I've driven over that so

1087
01:11:27,390 --> 01:11:31,380
many times and that that water's
edge over there.

1088
01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:35,970
It feels like it could be an amazing,
you know, series of,

1089
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:43,290
path networks and parks that mix in,
you know, different types of venues.

1090
01:11:43,770 --> 01:11:46,680
Can you tie in to the National
Arboretum there, or is that.

1091
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,420
I actually think it could be a
lot of people don't even know

1092
01:11:48,420 --> 01:11:52,050
that's there. Right, and you drive over,

1093
01:11:52,050 --> 01:11:55,140
you know, over that way,
and there's opportunities, you know,

1094
01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:59,520
that the communities there,
definitely deserve better.

1095
01:12:00,330 --> 01:12:02,580, you know,
from a planning standpoint and

1096
01:12:02,580 --> 01:12:06,030
from an architectural standpoint.
So being able to stitch that

1097
01:12:06,030 --> 01:12:10,620
together will take.
A redevelopment of the RFK

1098
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,640
environment to do that. I mean, it.
Would certainly help. Yeah.

1099
01:12:15,150 --> 01:12:17,910
That's that's that's a key
puzzle piece there.

1100
01:12:18,540 --> 01:12:25,110
You know, and that really goes to,
you know, the federal side earlier,

1101
01:12:25,740 --> 01:12:30,990, rethinking what that federal,
you know, what what that oversight

1102
01:12:30,990 --> 01:12:35,940
should be such that there is an
opportunity for DC to explore

1103
01:12:36,030 --> 01:12:40,770
different uses for that site,
but it goes beyond that site, because

1104
01:12:40,770 --> 01:12:45,060
if you go north and you go and you
go kind of wrap around, you know,

1105
01:12:45,060 --> 01:12:50,430
the rest of the Anacostia riverfront.
And I remember, you know, driving

1106
01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:55,890
along that and walking along that,
it's like there's something there's

1107
01:12:55,890 --> 01:12:58,620
there's possibilities here,
possibilities here.

1108
01:12:58,620 --> 01:13:00,450
And it's not just about
architecture and development.

1109
01:13:00,450 --> 01:13:06,480
It's about public space. Land use.
Yeah. Land use, restorative wetlands.

1110
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:10,200
You know, there's there's
significant chances there to do

1111
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:15,450
opportunities to do something better.
Well, do we have a,

1112
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:20,490
Tony Williams slash Andy Altman
around to say, okay,

1113
01:13:20,490 --> 01:13:24,840
this is how it's going to get done.
You know, that thought process where

1114
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,860
the big visioning kind of thought
process that has to be at the,

1115
01:13:29,220 --> 01:13:32,760
at the, at the scale of the city
government or you're not going to

1116
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,670
get the federal people involved.
I don't think in that unless

1117
01:13:35,670 --> 01:13:38,790
NPC's involved.
But you're going to have to have

1118
01:13:38,940 --> 01:13:42,210
somebody in a leadership role to
instigate that, I would think,

1119
01:13:42,210 --> 01:13:45,450
I don't know. Yeah.
I think you get, you know,

1120
01:13:45,450 --> 01:13:47,010
doesn't necessarily have to be
just one person,

1121
01:13:47,010 --> 01:13:51,840
but it's a it can be a couple of
people that are willing to put,

1122
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:57,000
their ideas out there in a way that,
you know, they'll be they'll be.

1123
01:13:58,030 --> 01:14:02,350
It may be rocky at first.
Yeah, but, you know,

1124
01:14:02,350 --> 01:14:06,430
if we can all just kind of endure
that there's real potential.

1125
01:14:06,610 --> 01:14:08,470
And I think, you know,
we talk about that in the design

1126
01:14:08,470 --> 01:14:12,400
forecast, which is really,
you know, thinking about the

1127
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:16,390
challenges that are there today, they're also if we can look

1128
01:14:16,390 --> 01:14:18,550
at them, they're opportunities.
Certainly. Right.

1129
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:21,760
And so from a design standpoint,
back to, you know,

1130
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:25,060
the optimism is just recognizing
that there are those opportunities.

1131
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:29,650
So how do we take some of those
challenges and really make them the

1132
01:14:29,650 --> 01:14:34,300
bright lights and challenge times.
Well, speaking of that challenge,

1133
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:36,790
yeah.
Your office is at the corner of 21st

1134
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:42,520
and K Street in downtown Washington.
It is a given that the CBD needs

1135
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,360
revitalization with your design
sensitivities.

1136
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:50,080
Assuming you were given a budget
of $1 billion to make physical

1137
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:53,470
improvements to downtown Washington's
infrastructure, what would you do?

1138
01:14:54,460 --> 01:14:58,720
Well, it isn't all just about
architecture and the buildings.

1139
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:02,170
It's really thinking about what's
happening on the streetscape outside,

1140
01:15:02,290 --> 01:15:04,810
right? Yes.
You know, I look at we have a

1141
01:15:04,810 --> 01:15:07,600
project that we're doing with
Avenue of the Arts in Philadelphia.

1142
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:11,440
So if you know, Philadelphia urban
planning, Broad Street, right, right.

1143
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:16,420
City Hall all the way down south,
you know, there's,

1144
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:19,930
an opportunity there.
You have just like we do here in DC.

1145
01:15:19,930 --> 01:15:26,440
There's some wonderful destinations,
and those destinations are,

1146
01:15:26,830 --> 01:15:30,760
you know, the streetscape that goes
and leads to them and connects

1147
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,180
them is not really one that you
feel very comfortable walking on.

1148
01:15:34,420 --> 01:15:40,240
So we did a strategy and a design
vision for the Avenue of the Arts,

1149
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,230
reimagining that to make it
something that is walkable,

1150
01:15:44,350 --> 01:15:48,070
that there's paths, points, that
there's vegetation. Was this for.

1151
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:51,310
The city of. Philadelphia?
It's actually it was for the

1152
01:15:51,310 --> 01:15:56,350
Avenue of the Arts group. Okay.
That was then taken to the city,

1153
01:15:56,470 --> 01:16:00,160
okay, to get interest.
And so we did the plan last year.

1154
01:16:00,250 --> 01:16:02,470
And so it's just moving through
that now.

1155
01:16:02,470 --> 01:16:06,400
But what I loved about the
sessions that we did for design,

1156
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,610
it wasn't us running off in a
corner and designing,

1157
01:16:09,610 --> 01:16:13,780
it was in these rooms where there's
all these stakeholders at the table.

1158
01:16:13,990 --> 01:16:17,200
Is that equivalent to like,
a bid here in Washington,

1159
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,200
or is it a little different type of.
Group, a little different,

1160
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:23,680
a little different, but there's
similarities in the sense that,

1161
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:29,230
you know, that, it's not just
it's the institutions that are,

1162
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:34,750
you know, like the different venues,
performance houses, etc., theaters.

1163
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:40,960, and it's, developers.
It's, you know, some of the,

1164
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,740, those from the kind of the
public sector, those were the

1165
01:16:44,740 --> 01:16:48,700
people that were at the table.
And, what's great is also if

1166
01:16:48,700 --> 01:16:51,610
you think about, you know,
like I look at 20 to your,

1167
01:16:51,610 --> 01:16:57,340
to your, 21st and k reference,
you know, the future of mobility.

1168
01:16:58,220 --> 01:17:02,000
Things are going to change.
So we shouldn't be hard and fast

1169
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,900
and say that that roadway has to
stay the same.

1170
01:17:06,110 --> 01:17:08,600
You know, with the rise of
electrification, we did a

1171
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,610
phenomenal research joint research
project with BMW Design Works.

1172
01:17:13,790 --> 01:17:17,570, that's now out there in the
public realm,

1173
01:17:17,570 --> 01:17:20,450
that looked at, you know,
with the rise of electrification,

1174
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,380, you know, how do we think
differently about our streets?

1175
01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:30,050
And also what was separating cars,
you know, and people, you know,

1176
01:17:30,050 --> 01:17:32,450
and buildings, you know, doesn't necessarily

1177
01:17:32,450 --> 01:17:36,590
need to have that same hard line
anymore. It's a blurry line.

1178
01:17:36,590 --> 01:17:41,480
So, you know, how do we take back
more parts of the streets for people?

1179
01:17:42,710 --> 01:17:45,620
And how do we think about,
you know, what the building

1180
01:17:45,620 --> 01:17:49,040
actually doesn't have to be,
you know, it's parking, you know,

1181
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,940
on these levels and, you know,
the occupied spaces up here.

1182
01:17:54,630 --> 01:17:57,990
So I think there's opportunities
for you to look at the 21st and

1183
01:17:57,990 --> 01:18:01,650
K intersection, to think
differently about the streetscape,

1184
01:18:01,650 --> 01:18:06,540
and then also think differently
about that built environment edge.

1185
01:18:07,020 --> 01:18:10,710
You know, if we start to think more
about, you know, I saw some of our

1186
01:18:10,710 --> 01:18:14,640
great urban planners, you know,
master planners within Gensler have

1187
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,550
really talked about, you know,
the qualities of an outdoor room

1188
01:18:17,730 --> 01:18:22,230
and some of these intersections,
you know, our outdoor rooms,

1189
01:18:22,380 --> 01:18:26,160
you know, and if you think about,
you know, streetscape.

1190
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:30,990
And, you know, with the streets
in terms of the vehicular path

1191
01:18:31,110 --> 01:18:35,790
potentially getting compressed.
You know, how could that change.

1192
01:18:36,060 --> 01:18:40,680
Change the use of parks in the city?
I mean, Farragut, you know,

1193
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:45,660
Farragut Square, you know,
the mall itself, I mean,

1194
01:18:45,660 --> 01:18:47,970
all the I mean, we have.
The circles, Thomas circle,

1195
01:18:48,090 --> 01:18:51,840
right? You know, DuPont Circle.
Yeah. Amazing. We have amazing.

1196
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,350
Parks. Parks.
Are they utilized appropriately

1197
01:18:55,350 --> 01:18:57,960
at this point and could be
utilized better? Well, they.

1198
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:02,520
Definitely so many of them could
benefit from a rethink for the

1199
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,980
same reasons I mentioned,
because mobility is changing in

1200
01:19:04,980 --> 01:19:08,220
the way people are moving through
spaces is going to be different.

1201
01:19:08,220 --> 01:19:11,700
So you think about also the last
mile, how many people are out there

1202
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:16,710
using scooters and bikes and you
know, you know, how do you how do

1203
01:19:16,710 --> 01:19:21,720
you create safe places for walking
versus those on that different,

1204
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:25,050
you know, on a two wheel or a
one wheel versus a four wheel?

1205
01:19:25,050 --> 01:19:27,900
So getting back to the economics
of the question that I asked,

1206
01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:29,940
if you had $1 billion,
what would you do with it?

1207
01:19:29,940 --> 01:19:31,320
Where would you put most of your
money?

1208
01:19:31,710 --> 01:19:35,490
I'd be thinking of ways that we
can incentivize experimentation.

1209
01:19:35,490 --> 01:19:39,600
So and putting some coin in it
as well, you know, not just the

1210
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:43,650
streetscape but also the distressed
assets that are, you know, along,

1211
01:19:43,650 --> 01:19:48,120
you know, these big streets.
So how do we experiment, you know,

1212
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:51,210
how does you know if that's not
going to work as an office

1213
01:19:51,210 --> 01:19:54,270
building converted to residential?
What are some other uses that it

1214
01:19:54,270 --> 01:19:57,780
could be? I mean.
You look at Pennsylvania Avenue and

1215
01:19:57,870 --> 01:20:00,780
it's probably the one of the least,
even before the pandemic was one

1216
01:20:00,780 --> 01:20:03,540
of the least traveled streets.
Because, you know what they did?

1217
01:20:03,540 --> 01:20:06,960
They closed Pennsylvania Avenue
between. Yes.

1218
01:20:07,980 --> 01:20:11,220
Right, 17th and 14th Street from
the white House.

1219
01:20:11,370 --> 01:20:13,950
When before that happened.
And that goes back,

1220
01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:19,320
I don't know, 20 years ago.
It was a much different environment.

1221
01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:22,980
So you just there's a three block
area in front of the white House.

1222
01:20:22,980 --> 01:20:26,130
You close it.
If you closed a section of K Street,

1223
01:20:26,130 --> 01:20:33,060
let's say, what would that do?
I mean, so is street closure a is

1224
01:20:33,060 --> 01:20:35,970
that an actual value creator or not.
It doesn't.

1225
01:20:35,970 --> 01:20:39,540
It feels like, you know,
like even with the avenue with the

1226
01:20:39,540 --> 01:20:42,690
arts example that I mentioned or
even like the Hollywood, we've

1227
01:20:42,690 --> 01:20:44,970
been working with the Hollywood,
you know, in Hollywood Boulevard,

1228
01:20:45,030 --> 01:20:48,600, the Walk of Fame there and
reimagining that with similar,

1229
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,990
you know, kind of, big ideas
on the table, future mobility,

1230
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:54,930
changing the, you know, potential, streets, giving back more of

1231
01:20:54,930 --> 01:21:00,540
the streets to people. You know it.
It says that all ideas should be on

1232
01:21:00,540 --> 01:21:04,140
the table at this early stage, right?
Why? Why rule something out, right?

1233
01:21:04,140 --> 01:21:09,090
You know. I mean, I drove in today.
I drove along Canal Road. Yeah.

1234
01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:13,200
And I, you know, now looked at like,
how how do we think about,

1235
01:21:13,650 --> 01:21:19,080
that experience, you know, canal, on the towpath, you know,

1236
01:21:19,140 --> 01:21:23,700, is there ways to think about
that area as, you know,

1237
01:21:23,700 --> 01:21:26,670
kind of a finger, you know,
finger Park coming out of the city in

1238
01:21:26,670 --> 01:21:30,780
a different way that it is now.
Now people, you know, you're on the

1239
01:21:30,780 --> 01:21:38,520
path. Where are you driving? Right.
That's it. Interesting. Interesting.

1240
01:21:39,770 --> 01:21:44,600
So I just finished reading The
Power Broker by Robert Caro about

1241
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:49,010
Robert Moses, who was considered by
by some the architect of New York

1242
01:21:49,010 --> 01:21:53,090
infrastructure in the 20th century.
He built more roads, bridges,

1243
01:21:53,090 --> 01:21:57,140
parks and large public structures
than any other public official,

1244
01:21:57,140 --> 01:22:01,130
perhaps in U.S. history.
Yet he had significant

1245
01:22:01,130 --> 01:22:05,540
blindspots regarding the market,
the impacts of his projects

1246
01:22:05,540 --> 01:22:09,470
displacing over half a million
people in some of his projects.

1247
01:22:10,550 --> 01:22:14,240, I asked you before the interview.
You said you have not read the book.

1248
01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:18,320
I haven't, but,
the book that contrasts that

1249
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:22,100
style is Jane Jacobs Death in
the life of the American Cities.

1250
01:22:22,100 --> 01:22:23,780
I'm guessing you've read that book,
right?

1251
01:22:23,930 --> 01:22:26,990
That was required reading in one
of the classes. Yes. Right.

1252
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:33,200, do you believe the cities are now
more human scale and have completely

1253
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:37,880
evolved away from the grand schemes
of the Moses that Moses espoused?

1254
01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:42,800
Yeah, it definitely feels like
cities, are increasingly

1255
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,090
about pedestrian experiences.
And how can we make them more,

1256
01:22:47,210 --> 01:22:49,700, you know, streetscapes,
more people friendly, less.

1257
01:22:49,700 --> 01:22:52,700
Auto centric, less. Auto centric.
You know, it's interesting,

1258
01:22:52,700 --> 01:22:57,080
when we started working with BMW, with their design,

1259
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:00,290
with design works, which is they're
more avant garde design studio.

1260
01:23:00,530 --> 01:23:04,160
And, it was a phenomenal
collaboration because they were

1261
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,250
recognizing the pain points.
So they're, you know, they build

1262
01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:12,770
cars, they design cars and,
cities, a lot of cities don't

1263
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:17,720
want the cars in them. Right.
So what is their future look like?

1264
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:21,800
At the same time, we were looking
at mobility and looking at that,

1265
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:23,630
you know, what does it mean in the
built environment when all of a

1266
01:23:23,630 --> 01:23:28,250
sudden the car doesn't need to be
necessarily down in the lower levels,

1267
01:23:28,250 --> 01:23:31,100
you know, wasting space?
It could be I could be using my car

1268
01:23:31,100 --> 01:23:33,680
if electric car could be, you know,
using that as an extension of my

1269
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:38,990
space. That's a really weird idea.
But why not? Right.

1270
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:42,680
So we started to think about what
happens if you start to, you know,

1271
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,310
think differently about the cities.
All right?

1272
01:23:45,310 --> 01:23:49,390
And you go to a city like Munich.
I was in Munich two weeks ago.

1273
01:23:50,090 --> 01:23:53,900
And I stayed at a hotel that was
right down in the, the Marion

1274
01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:57,960
plots. And our offices right?
Right there as well.

1275
01:23:58,290 --> 01:24:03,600
And I was like, wow, what an amazing.
It's mostly a pedestrian core.

1276
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:10,620
And so people are walking all over
throughout the day. Crisscrossing.

1277
01:24:10,620 --> 01:24:13,470
They're not worried about being
hit by a car.

1278
01:24:13,500 --> 01:24:17,370
There's bike lanes, you know.
People are.

1279
01:24:18,030 --> 01:24:22,260
You know, really owning the streets.
Is that a recent phenomenon in

1280
01:24:22,260 --> 01:24:25,140
Munich, or has it been that way?
I think Marion Platz has been

1281
01:24:25,140 --> 01:24:27,780
that way for a while,
but they extended that out. Okay.

1282
01:24:27,990 --> 01:24:31,680, and so I was able to walk
blocks and blocks without

1283
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:35,640
worrying about a major artery,
you know, in a major, you know,

1284
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,760
vehicular artery coming through.
And I'm thinking for our people

1285
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,970
that are working in Munich, what
an amazing experience to be coming

1286
01:24:42,030 --> 01:24:46,800
through that. Barcelona is like that.
I was in Barcelona, a year ago.

1287
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:51,600
And, there's parts of Barcelona
that are like that, you know,

1288
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:57,600, I was in Mexico City,
you know, a about a month ago and,

1289
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,620, you know, visiting our office
there and, there's parts of

1290
01:25:01,620 --> 01:25:05,550
Mexico City that were phenomenal
pedestrian experiences, you know,

1291
01:25:05,670 --> 01:25:10,830
and it's it doesn't have to be,
you know, over there.

1292
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,170
Well, the mall in Washington is
a phenomenal.

1293
01:25:13,530 --> 01:25:16,710
It's a phenomenal experience.
Right? Right, right.

1294
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,280
But the connectivity is the question.
Right? Right.

1295
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,820
Well how do you do it in a way you're
not creating islands. Right? Right.

1296
01:25:23,820 --> 01:25:27,180
And like so the mall is amazing
once you're on it.

1297
01:25:27,900 --> 01:25:31,530
But you know, you still have,
you know. Crossing constitutional.

1298
01:25:31,530 --> 01:25:33,600
Constitutionality.
That's exactly what I was going.

1299
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:37,440
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
And so or independence. Right.

1300
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:41,880
I mean you've got these big,
big, you know, barriers,

1301
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:46,320
but to some of the principles we
were talking about earlier of,

1302
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,220
you know, taking back some of the
streets for people and thinking about

1303
01:25:50,220 --> 01:25:56,190
that outdoor room and the scale and
ways to, you know, look at how do I

1304
01:25:56,190 --> 01:26:00,360
move and stitch across, there's
some phenomenal opportunities.

1305
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,600
Well, what the pandemic's impact
on what on Washington, DC.

1306
01:26:04,450 --> 01:26:09,040
And the lack of people coming back to
the city isn't now the time to say,

1307
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:13,300
okay, it's time to shut some
roads down and see what happens.

1308
01:26:13,330 --> 01:26:16,810
Which is obviously going to
cause tumult in a lot of

1309
01:26:16,810 --> 01:26:19,810
people's thought process.
But at the same time,

1310
01:26:19,810 --> 01:26:22,330
you might create value that you
didn't have before.

1311
01:26:22,330 --> 01:26:26,800
So how do we how do you sell
that idea of doing something in

1312
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:29,560
around a radical nature?
Well, it does feel like there's

1313
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,590
opportunities to put up some
trial balloons, right?

1314
01:26:32,590 --> 01:26:35,260
And try things out without
saying it's a mandate.

1315
01:26:35,260 --> 01:26:38,620
We're going switching from a, you
know, from this to that right away.

1316
01:26:39,010 --> 01:26:42,670
And then also to study patterns.
I think one of the, one of the

1317
01:26:42,670 --> 01:26:45,550
things, one of the things I love
about how we approach design is it's

1318
01:26:45,550 --> 01:26:48,790
not just going about, you know,
and saying, let's just get a program

1319
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:51,220
and start designing a solution.
Let's design that building and

1320
01:26:51,220 --> 01:26:53,890
let's design that space.
It's really thinking from an

1321
01:26:53,890 --> 01:26:58,150
ethnographic, you know, perspective
of like, what's the user experience?

1322
01:26:58,540 --> 01:27:01,960
Could it be like, you know,
how do you marry, you know,

1323
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:04,960
some of the goals that are out
there and like and watching people.

1324
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:10,000
I remember we did a we were working
with, Duke University some

1325
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:15,580
years ago and, it was to do a
study of one of their buildings.

1326
01:27:15,790 --> 01:27:20,350
And rather than just start with
a design and just jump right in,

1327
01:27:20,380 --> 01:27:24,730
we had one of our, our team
members just go and like, observe.

1328
01:27:25,490 --> 01:27:28,730
Just observe how people were
moving through the day.

1329
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:35,210
And then we created this really long, you know, like matrix.

1330
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:39,350
It was really kind of a graph, and
it looked at the different spaces,

1331
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:44,960
how they were used during the day,
and what we were hearing and

1332
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,060
observing from the people
throughout that day.

1333
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,840
And what it did, was it when you
step back and look at it,

1334
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,320
it clearly highlighted where the
pain points of that building were.

1335
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,250
So what we said to them was, you know
what, you don't need to actually

1336
01:27:58,460 --> 01:28:03,300
renovate this entire building.
You can get the highest and best use

1337
01:28:03,300 --> 01:28:06,330
of your dollars by concentrating
them here, here and here.

1338
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:10,590
That's where it should be because
that's going to be where it's needed.

1339
01:28:10,590 --> 01:28:14,190
So back to your,
you know back to your thing pilots

1340
01:28:14,220 --> 01:28:17,490
you know pilot projects and being
able to observe that's first

1341
01:28:17,490 --> 01:28:21,540
principles thinking. Very good.
You know it's like I've heard

1342
01:28:21,540 --> 01:28:26,940
this on path making.
If you're if you're in a college

1343
01:28:26,940 --> 01:28:31,050
and you see and you don't have
you may not have a paved area,

1344
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:35,520
but you just look at where those
paths are and that's where you pave,

1345
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,680
because that's where people have
already walked.

1346
01:28:37,710 --> 01:28:41,220
They just do this naturally.
It's a natural thing, right? Exactly.

1347
01:28:41,220 --> 01:28:43,260
Then then you go back and make a
path. Right, right.

1348
01:28:43,410 --> 01:28:47,730
Well, you had mentioned about the
Uli, talk that I had given and,

1349
01:28:47,730 --> 01:28:51,450, you know,
we do this city pulse survey. Okay.

1350
01:28:51,450 --> 01:28:55,770
And so we in our 2023 city pulse
survey and our report that we did

1351
01:28:55,770 --> 01:29:00,630
that gathered up the findings,
we found that most people were going

1352
01:29:00,630 --> 01:29:05,220
into the CBD of cities, you know,
to think about shop dining,

1353
01:29:05,220 --> 01:29:09,230
socializing or hanging out.
So it's like, okay, well, that's the

1354
01:29:09,230 --> 01:29:14,030
case, you know, how do we look at
it's back to that Munich example,

1355
01:29:14,030 --> 01:29:19,670
right. What facilitates that.
And so certainly architectural

1356
01:29:19,670 --> 01:29:22,580
solutions.
But there's also larger planning

1357
01:29:22,580 --> 01:29:27,950
strategies that can work in you know,
if all of a sudden there are those

1358
01:29:27,950 --> 01:29:33,650
plazas, those areas where people can
congregate and feel safe, right.

1359
01:29:33,650 --> 01:29:37,010
And feel that they can connect with
others or they can cue if it's

1360
01:29:37,010 --> 01:29:39,920
coming into a venue. Is there a.
Large residential population

1361
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,100
right there in nearby walking
distance from there? Okay.

1362
01:29:43,100 --> 01:29:46,460
Well, that makes a difference as
well. Yeah, it's it's a mix.

1363
01:29:46,460 --> 01:29:48,680
I mean it's definitely the
residential, but there's office.

1364
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,740
Like I said, our office is right
right there as well. You know.

1365
01:29:51,740 --> 01:29:53,210
And one of the things I thought
was interesting,

1366
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:56,810
we see this in Paris too.
We were actually seeing that we have

1367
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:03,770
we have an office, near the arc
de Triomphe in Paris and all these,

1368
01:30:03,770 --> 01:30:07,040, buildings that are you would
look at them and say, that's not

1369
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:11,870
right for office. What's happening?
Offices in those buildings. Why?

1370
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:17,720
Because whether it's a law firm,
a creative services firm or whatever,

1371
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:24,770
they're wanting to be there, there's
activity. There's life okay.

1372
01:30:24,770 --> 01:30:28,460
Throughout the day and you know,
yes, you certainly could have an

1373
01:30:28,460 --> 01:30:33,020
office out at La Défense.
But being down at the center of

1374
01:30:33,020 --> 01:30:36,430
that area feels different.
You know,

1375
01:30:36,430 --> 01:30:41,650
it's it feels more experiential.
And, you know, with our research

1376
01:30:41,650 --> 01:30:45,190
that we were putting out on the
heels of the pandemic, we were,

1377
01:30:45,190 --> 01:30:49,060
you know, posing that notion of
how do you make office,

1378
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:53,640
a destination, not an obligation.
You know, I think the Marriott

1379
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:57,000
project is an example of that.
It came out right where people are

1380
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:02,580
going there, because there's an array
of amenities that create a totally

1381
01:31:02,580 --> 01:31:05,700
different workplace environment
for a reason to be there and a

1382
01:31:05,700 --> 01:31:10,050
reason to interact with others.
And and then there's that ground

1383
01:31:10,050 --> 01:31:12,540
plane that I mentioned where
people can be interacting,

1384
01:31:12,540 --> 01:31:17,070
that whether they're there for
Marriott or not, they can feel

1385
01:31:17,070 --> 01:31:22,530
comfortable being there.
So you've just talked about this,

1386
01:31:22,530 --> 01:31:25,170
but I'm going to get into a little
more looking at your business,

1387
01:31:25,170 --> 01:31:28,500
how how do you look at new
opportunities because of your

1388
01:31:28,500 --> 01:31:34,230
reputation to develop or seek you
out for projects typically. Yes.

1389
01:31:34,350 --> 01:31:37,980, I would say both we have
developers and clients that seek

1390
01:31:37,980 --> 01:31:43,470
us out, but we also have,
you know, we have 76, 70% of our

1391
01:31:43,470 --> 01:31:45,180
business is repeat business.
Yeah,

1392
01:31:45,450 --> 01:31:48,870
it's just great client relationships.
When our Gensler, you know,

1393
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:54,630
founded the firm in 1965.
He really focused on the clients

1394
01:31:54,990 --> 01:31:57,330
and really building lasting
relationships.

1395
01:31:57,330 --> 01:31:59,520
And that's one of the things
that we are really proud of is

1396
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,910
that these clients that we're
working with are, you know,

1397
01:32:02,910 --> 01:32:07,560
long standing clients and, you know,
the array of practices that we're in.

1398
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,290
Allow us to say, you know,
we may have done an office

1399
01:32:10,290 --> 01:32:13,140
building here for you,
but over here you want to actually

1400
01:32:13,140 --> 01:32:17,010
do a new multifamily building.
Let's look at that together.

1401
01:32:17,460 --> 01:32:20,040
You know, or, you know,
it could be a consumer brand.

1402
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,650
And we've done, you know,
their headquarters, but we're

1403
01:32:22,650 --> 01:32:27,300
also doing a new prototype retail
space for them. That's great.

1404
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:32,660
So Paul Graham is a software
engineer and a venture capitalist

1405
01:32:32,660 --> 01:32:36,660
who writes thoughtful essays.
There are links to two of them.

1406
01:32:36,660 --> 01:32:39,810
I just I gave them to you.
One is called How to Get New

1407
01:32:39,810 --> 01:32:43,890
Ideas and the other one is
called taste for makers.

1408
01:32:44,730 --> 01:32:48,810
The first essay discusses the
concepts of anomalies and fractals.

1409
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:54,090
Perhaps discuss those ideas and
how they influence you if they do.

1410
01:32:54,330 --> 01:32:58,140
The second essay is a thorough
explanation of taste and design

1411
01:32:58,140 --> 01:33:01,260
and its influences.
While this could be a course

1412
01:33:01,260 --> 01:33:05,970
curriculum, perhaps cite your
perspectives of the concepts

1413
01:33:05,970 --> 01:33:09,330
outlined here, emphasizing your
particular design philosophy.

1414
01:33:09,780 --> 01:33:13,710
You know, the the first one that
you mentioned around the, you know,

1415
01:33:13,710 --> 01:33:18,840
the, anomalies, the, you know,
the fractals that it's interesting.

1416
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:25,200
I remember sitting in, you know,
math class in high school and it

1417
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,630
was I think it was calculus.
And, you know, you get those

1418
01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:31,530
equations and you create these
great shapes on a graph.

1419
01:33:31,770 --> 01:33:35,730
And I remember a teacher saying, you know, imagine that.

1420
01:33:35,730 --> 01:33:39,120
You know, we're looking I'm looking
at a 2D graph on the page right.

1421
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:43,710 or 2D shape and like imagine
that that's 3D.

1422
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:47,100
What would that look like.
This is back in the day of you know

1423
01:33:47,100 --> 01:33:52,110
paper on and pencil right. Yeah but I remember imagining

1424
01:33:52,110 --> 01:33:57,810
those shapes as 3D volumes.
And since I had been interested

1425
01:33:57,810 --> 01:34:01,230
in design, since it was so long
and the early days of Legos,

1426
01:34:01,500 --> 01:34:05,880
it was it was actually very easy
to kind of imagine that, you know,

1427
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:09,570
and that curve became, you know,
what looked like a vase. Right?

1428
01:34:09,630 --> 01:34:15,840
And so I think there's something that
was in the first essay that also

1429
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:19,860
connects in with the second,
which is the notion of simplicity.

1430
01:34:20,100 --> 01:34:22,500.
Right about just, you know,

1431
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:29,100
good design, appreciating simplicity.
And I think for us,

1432
01:34:29,100 --> 01:34:32,400
we have found that it's one thing
that we talk about a lot throughout

1433
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:37,740
the firm is like simplicity.
Right. Let's just step back.

1434
01:34:37,740 --> 01:34:43,650
And you know some of the best design
work comes when you edit. Right.

1435
01:34:43,770 --> 01:34:50,300
And you know the to not be afraid.
To pare it back.

1436
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:57,520
More is not necessarily more,
right? Right, right. But that.

1437
01:34:58,210 --> 01:35:01,600
Second essay gets into a lot of
different aspects of taste.

1438
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:07,090
So what what would you how would you
define good taste in architecture.

1439
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:10,120.
Well you and I were talking at

1440
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:16,090
length about experiences. Right.
And, you know when we.

1441
01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:22,300
You know, create a place or a
space together with a client that.

1442
01:35:23,380 --> 01:35:29,470
Trump's a positive, like an
overwhelmingly positive experience

1443
01:35:29,470 --> 01:35:34,120
out of someone or a reaction, and they walk away or they walk

1444
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:38,200
by with a smile on their face.
You know, whether that's a new

1445
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:43,420
office for Instagram or, you know,
a new basketball arena in Texas

1446
01:35:43,420 --> 01:35:50,500
at the University of Texas.
You know, that is, you know,

1447
01:35:50,500 --> 01:35:57,650
you could equate taste. Experience.
And I find that when we get into

1448
01:35:57,650 --> 01:36:03,590
those projects and we're able to
deliver on those experiences.

1449
01:36:06,150 --> 01:36:12,180
It's hard not to associate good
taste. In that respect. Interesting.

1450
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,130
So I think it's a perspective
thing myself.

1451
01:36:16,130 --> 01:36:18,980
I think that everyone has their own.
I mean, some people like

1452
01:36:18,980 --> 01:36:22,550
broccoli and other people don't.
I mean, some people like, you know,

1453
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:26,780
eat meat, some people like,
you know, curvilinear shapes,

1454
01:36:26,780 --> 01:36:30,740
some people like more rigid.
So to me it's a personal thing.

1455
01:36:30,980 --> 01:36:34,760
But what you're saying based on the
experience thing and I'm trying

1456
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:40,100
to interpret here, is it really
depends on the client's needs and

1457
01:36:40,100 --> 01:36:43,040
what they believe is good taste.
And you're trying to kind of

1458
01:36:43,850 --> 01:36:48,950
emulate that maybe or help them
think it through and say, you know,

1459
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:51,620
you might want to think about it
this way because I think it's going

1460
01:36:51,620 --> 01:36:55,880
to work better for you in the long
run from a practical standpoint.

1461
01:36:55,880 --> 01:37:00,980
But also if you step back and
think about it, looking at it,

1462
01:37:01,130 --> 01:37:04,520
don't you think it's something
that works? You know, for you.

1463
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:11,570
It definitely has to work, I liked your comment about,

1464
01:37:11,570 --> 01:37:15,740, the kind of personal nature
of that because, you know,

1465
01:37:15,740 --> 01:37:18,950
it is personal if there is a
subjective nature to this.

1466
01:37:18,950 --> 01:37:22,190
And actually, that's what I
think is a phenomenal challenge.

1467
01:37:22,460 --> 01:37:26,330
So let's say we're creating that
new basketball arena.

1468
01:37:26,330 --> 01:37:29,840
So it's called the Moody Center
at the University of Texas.

1469
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,600
And I had a chance to tour it, two months ago.

1470
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:38,660
And, I walked in and,
immediately,

1471
01:37:38,660 --> 01:37:44,210
like when I think of arena,
what would have been like a concourse

1472
01:37:44,210 --> 01:37:48,740
that would have been cluttered with,
like, you know, concession

1473
01:37:48,740 --> 01:37:54,320
spaces and bathrooms and whatever.
I walked into an atrium and

1474
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:58,610
natural light is flooding in,
and there's a, you know,

1475
01:37:58,610 --> 01:38:02,810
beautiful big glass wall and a big
plaza that I walked across to go in.

1476
01:38:03,260 --> 01:38:08,330
And then the, the, the vertical
circulation that's normally like,

1477
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:11,570
you know, kind of stacked or
pushed off is celebrated.

1478
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:15,050
And I went upstairs, you know,
and I'm like, you know what?

1479
01:38:15,050 --> 01:38:18,410
This is fantastic.
It was a phenomenal experience.

1480
01:38:18,740 --> 01:38:22,520
And, you know,
some days that's a concert in there.

1481
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:28,010
Some days that's a basketball game.
And there's different places to

1482
01:38:28,010 --> 01:38:31,880
watch those events.
And I was talking to our team

1483
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:33,800
and they're like, well,
we've been here for concerts and

1484
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:37,340
we've been here for basketball games.
And I'm like, tell me what?

1485
01:38:37,340 --> 01:38:39,800
What are you observing?
What are you seeing.

1486
01:38:40,010 --> 01:38:42,920
And they talked about how the
space is utilized differently.

1487
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:49,460
It has an agility built into it and
how the people's experiences you know

1488
01:38:49,460 --> 01:38:52,430
for a concert are very different,
positive but very different than

1489
01:38:52,430 --> 01:38:56,600
experience for a basketball game
and how the space actually can

1490
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:59,300
transform for that.
And I thought, well,

1491
01:38:59,300 --> 01:39:01,970
that's really interesting.
If you take what you're saying

1492
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:06,060
about taste.
So how that person is

1493
01:39:06,060 --> 01:39:10,830
experiencing or that taste of
that venue for a concert.

1494
01:39:11,550 --> 01:39:14,370
Very different from basketball.
Right.

1495
01:39:14,370 --> 01:39:19,710
And they're both walking away with
a connectivity to that. Right.

1496
01:39:19,890 --> 01:39:24,510
And it's positive in both respects.
It's interesting but very different.

1497
01:39:24,690 --> 01:39:29,520
Yeah. Right. So so so that's wow.
That's like that's an amazing

1498
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:33,000
opportunity for us to be able to
play on that scale.

1499
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:36,510
So what resonated with me,
with what you just said is that

1500
01:39:36,510 --> 01:39:41,520
buildings are living things as well.
So in essence,

1501
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:45,960
they adapt like like living
things do to their environment.

1502
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:50,010
So if the environment is different,
for instance, a basketball game

1503
01:39:50,010 --> 01:39:56,010
relative to a live rock concert,
let's say the feeling is

1504
01:39:56,010 --> 01:39:58,140
completely different.
So in essence the building's

1505
01:39:58,140 --> 01:40:04,140
adapted to those to that, that
different environment, right? Yeah.

1506
01:40:04,140 --> 01:40:09,870
And you know, it is fascinating
when you think about not just as

1507
01:40:09,870 --> 01:40:14,790
a buildings that can really be
stages for life, you know, kind of

1508
01:40:14,910 --> 01:40:20,040
and for living stages for living, to think about how when we,

1509
01:40:20,070 --> 01:40:25,650
when we layer in, you know, sustainability strategies,

1510
01:40:25,650 --> 01:40:29,790
biophilia, as a, as, you know,
in principles related to that,

1511
01:40:29,790 --> 01:40:34,950
into these spaces, how it is not
only that, but it also it's ever

1512
01:40:34,950 --> 01:40:38,730
changing and how light, you know,
penetrates into the building,

1513
01:40:38,730 --> 01:40:42,780
how people move through the building.
You know, we, we,

1514
01:40:42,780 --> 01:40:48,420
were involved in a, in an airport
project and Jackson Hole,

1515
01:40:48,420 --> 01:40:51,660
we do a lot of aviation work.
It's a massive timber building.

1516
01:40:52,660 --> 01:40:55,750
And I was reading a review of
the building,

1517
01:40:55,750 --> 01:41:00,520
and they talked about how this is a,
you know, an architectural critic.

1518
01:41:00,610 --> 01:41:03,310
How they found the space so
compelling.

1519
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:08,260
And that it actually brought a
sense of, you know,

1520
01:41:08,260 --> 01:41:13,220
of I think they used the word calm.
To their travel experience.

1521
01:41:13,970 --> 01:41:18,770
Common travel experiences aren't
usually, you know, harmonious, right?

1522
01:41:19,370 --> 01:41:22,280
So I was like, wow,
that's amazing. Right?

1523
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:27,110
So to be able to do that y and y
y in that case, so talked about

1524
01:41:27,380 --> 01:41:30,770
the feeling of natural light
coming through the views,

1525
01:41:30,770 --> 01:41:35,330
the views of the mountains beyond
the warmth of the wood. Right?

1526
01:41:35,330 --> 01:41:38,780
The the mix of the material palette.
It's a simple palette that talked

1527
01:41:38,780 --> 01:41:43,340
about, but yet it was very,
it was very much tactile.

1528
01:41:43,820 --> 01:41:46,850
And this is an airport. Yeah.
It's an airport.

1529
01:41:47,330 --> 01:41:50,450
That's interesting. Yeah.
Spaces that we don't often think

1530
01:41:50,450 --> 01:41:55,130
about as, you know,
calm or that you're pausing.

1531
01:41:55,130 --> 01:41:57,440
You want to move through them
potentially as fast as you can.

1532
01:41:57,830 --> 01:42:02,060
Right. That is interesting.
And I think it, you know,

1533
01:42:02,060 --> 01:42:07,670
for for us as a firm, you know,
it raises an interesting opportunity

1534
01:42:07,670 --> 01:42:12,620
as we look at the built environment
going forward, which is, you know,

1535
01:42:13,100 --> 01:42:20,510, how can the places and spaces,
you know, that were being asked

1536
01:42:20,510 --> 01:42:26,690
to develop and create, have, you know,

1537
01:42:26,690 --> 01:42:30,620
that flexibility built into them.
You know,

1538
01:42:30,620 --> 01:42:33,920
that we can think about them from,
you know, a little bit more to

1539
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:39,650
the essay about the timelessness,
you know, and inherent in the design.

1540
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:45,230
And how can you do that with a
simple approach, simple palette,

1541
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:50,780
simple expressions. Right.
You know, not not to strive for

1542
01:42:50,780 --> 01:42:54,490
greater complexity.
It's interesting that, you know,

1543
01:42:54,490 --> 01:42:58,090
looking at American history and
then looking at European history.

1544
01:42:58,670 --> 01:43:01,280
And then you talked about
eastern cultures.

1545
01:43:01,370 --> 01:43:07,220, did they design for infinity or
did they design to get something

1546
01:43:07,220 --> 01:43:09,560
built just for the immediate need?
And that's it.

1547
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,110
And then ten years from now,
we're going to tear it and re down

1548
01:43:12,440 --> 01:43:16,340
or something that's adaptable,
that had good bones to it that

1549
01:43:16,340 --> 01:43:20,630
you could just readapt to.
So I don't know, in the US,

1550
01:43:20,630 --> 01:43:23,210
I think we've seen a lot of
change over the years.

1551
01:43:23,450 --> 01:43:29,150, this city seems to be as
much of an eternal city as any,

1552
01:43:29,300 --> 01:43:33,170
like like Paris, call it,
you know, or maybe Rome.

1553
01:43:33,170 --> 01:43:37,310
I don't think Rome's the eternal
Washington was built that way,

1554
01:43:37,310 --> 01:43:41,450
but but it somehow it just
doesn't feel that way.

1555
01:43:41,450 --> 01:43:44,990
And I don't know what that is, but
anyway, I'm. That's just a comment.

1556
01:43:45,020 --> 01:43:49,580
Yeah, I think it's it is a unique, you know,

1557
01:43:49,580 --> 01:43:53,030
there's a uniqueness to Washington,
D.C. and the metro area around us,

1558
01:43:53,030 --> 01:43:57,500
right where it's, first of all,
it's three different jurisdictions,

1559
01:43:57,500 --> 01:44:00,620
right?
There's the kind of natural pathways

1560
01:44:00,620 --> 01:44:04,010
of the rivers that really define,
you know,

1561
01:44:04,010 --> 01:44:10,340
opportunity as well as edges, and there's also a topographic

1562
01:44:10,670 --> 01:44:13,970
condition that people often
don't appreciate in the city.

1563
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:17,120
And I know some of the projects
that we've done and, you know,

1564
01:44:17,120 --> 01:44:20,390
for instance, in Virginia,
where you're able to all of a sudden

1565
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:26,630
appreciate the vantage points of the
city, that often are overlooked.

1566
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:34,430, so at the same time,
D.C. is a city that is.

1567
01:44:36,310 --> 01:44:40,450
That seems like it reinvents itself.
That's right.

1568
01:44:41,140 --> 01:44:44,740
And it feels like now we're
being asked that question.

1569
01:44:44,740 --> 01:44:50,670
Another one? Yes. You know.
So as a follow on,

1570
01:44:50,670 --> 01:44:53,820
how are you inspired creatively?
This is something that you can

1571
01:44:53,820 --> 01:44:57,420
be can be taught or is it innate
in creative to professionals?

1572
01:44:57,870 --> 01:45:02,940
Well, from a from a personal
standpoint, I get inspired,

1573
01:45:02,940 --> 01:45:05,160
you know, when I walk through
our offices, I love it.

1574
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:08,010
I love visiting our offices
around this firm.

1575
01:45:08,100 --> 01:45:10,980, walking through,
meeting people and whether they're,

1576
01:45:10,980 --> 01:45:16,950
you know, the seasoned vet or the
new college grad, the, the,

1577
01:45:16,980 --> 01:45:20,040, you know, the skill sets
that they bring to the table and

1578
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:25,150
learning about what makes them tick.
I find, you know, like,

1579
01:45:25,150 --> 01:45:29,410
like a such a wonderful rush.
But I love doing it and crossing

1580
01:45:29,410 --> 01:45:32,500
cultures.
You know, I find that,

1581
01:45:32,500 --> 01:45:36,400
increasingly we're becoming a
very much a borderless firm.

1582
01:45:38,060 --> 01:45:42,890
And we work on projects, you know,
and connect one another, you know,

1583
01:45:42,890 --> 01:45:47,660
across, you know, borders and
and geographies and cultures and

1584
01:45:47,660 --> 01:45:53,720
climates in ways that few do.
And it's absolutely, you know,

1585
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:59,360
inspiring and energizing to see that.
For me personally.

1586
01:45:59,750 --> 01:46:04,640
I also find that the creativity
has to come and get nurtured from,

1587
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:08,750
you know, other avenues, I love guitar.

1588
01:46:09,590 --> 01:46:12,170, so I, you know,
occasionally make noise.

1589
01:46:12,620 --> 01:46:17,480, I also really get,
and I know a lot of people at

1590
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:21,590
Gensler do this as well because we
travel so much, get inspired

1591
01:46:21,590 --> 01:46:25,940
by looking at the world around us
and bringing that to the table.

1592
01:46:26,450 --> 01:46:31,160
And there's so many ways to do that
now to capture what inspires us,

1593
01:46:31,160 --> 01:46:35,210
what excites us, and bring that
in and layer that into projects.

1594
01:46:35,210 --> 01:46:38,960
And that creates these layers of
richness that I think can make

1595
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:42,470
that that particular project sing.
That's great.

1596
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:47,840, how do you hire new architects?
What do you look for in budding

1597
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:54,320
architects.
We definitely look for people that,

1598
01:46:54,380 --> 01:47:01,700, that want to collaborate, that can be, really

1599
01:47:01,700 --> 01:47:09,020
expressing the we versus AI culture
that we espouse, people that.

1600
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:12,850
You know,
have a like an innate curiosity.

1601
01:47:14,510 --> 01:47:17,450
Because we really had this
culture of curiosity here.

1602
01:47:18,060 --> 01:47:23,490
And we embrace people that are
coming in that are not wanting

1603
01:47:23,490 --> 01:47:28,840
to just take their pen.
To paper and or mouse to screen.

1604
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:36,560. And drive an idea.
It's about putting your ideas in

1605
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:40,700
context with others.
And seeing what comes out of it.

1606
01:47:42,350 --> 01:47:44,030
What's your.
What you said about the

1607
01:47:44,030 --> 01:47:47,990
interview process.
Coming here told me that this is

1608
01:47:47,990 --> 01:47:50,630
a people oriented firm,
not a design oriented firm.

1609
01:47:50,630 --> 01:47:53,210
It's a people first culture,
for sure.

1610
01:47:53,750 --> 01:47:57,920
And that that guides your. Yeah.
And the other thing I think is who,

1611
01:47:58,160 --> 01:48:03,770
you know, people that want to
continue to learn, because I've

1612
01:48:03,770 --> 01:48:07,610
often looked at us as kind of
like I call it a campus in a box.

1613
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:12,800
All our offices have, you know,
courses that are running through,

1614
01:48:12,980 --> 01:48:16,340
like as a curriculum on a
regular basis.

1615
01:48:16,730 --> 01:48:19,130
These can be taught by people
that have certain skill sets

1616
01:48:19,130 --> 01:48:23,620
within the office.
Or we bring in other people from

1617
01:48:23,620 --> 01:48:28,030
outside that have that particular
interest or skill set.

1618
01:48:28,540 --> 01:48:31,900
And it,
it creates a learning environment.

1619
01:48:33,230 --> 01:48:35,420
But that learning environment
doesn't always have to be formal.

1620
01:48:35,420 --> 01:48:37,760
It can be informal.
It can be the mentoring and

1621
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:41,840
coaching that goes on.
I've been very fortunate in my career

1622
01:48:42,020 --> 01:48:48,350
that I've had amazing mentors,
and they've really tried to create

1623
01:48:48,350 --> 01:48:53,990
instances for me to, you know,
step out of the shadows and,

1624
01:48:54,350 --> 01:48:59,720
you know, try something,
see if I can succeed and if there's

1625
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:04,040
challenges or if I don't, you know,
constructive feedback that helps.

1626
01:49:04,340 --> 01:49:08,900
And I think actually, that's
something that is really integral

1627
01:49:08,900 --> 01:49:13,700
to our culture as a firm is that,
you know, coaching and mentoring

1628
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:19,400
and giving people opportunity.
I you know, if I look back 28 years

1629
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:22,580
ago, I wouldn't have prescribed
this career path I couldn't have.

1630
01:49:23,500 --> 01:49:27,340
But it's been a heck of a ride.
That's great.

1631
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:33,710
So how do you manage through the
cycles in real estate, with all

1632
01:49:33,710 --> 01:49:37,280
the ups and downs that they have?
How do you handle handle that aspect?

1633
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:42,350, through the diversification
of our work. And that has helped.

1634
01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:46,790
You know, we're fortunate you and I
here to be sitting in Washington, DC,

1635
01:49:46,790 --> 01:49:51,230
which is a city that because of,
you know, the public sector work,

1636
01:49:51,230 --> 01:49:54,470
the private sector work,
the local work, the national work,

1637
01:49:54,470 --> 01:50:00,440
the international opportunities,
it is a city that, you know, through

1638
01:50:00,440 --> 01:50:05,210
these different crisis moments.
In the past,

1639
01:50:05,210 --> 01:50:09,930
has been a bit insulated.
The highs aren't necessarily the

1640
01:50:09,930 --> 01:50:14,280
extreme highs that some cities get.
The lows aren't necessarily the

1641
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:19,920
lows that some cities get.
And we've found that diversifying

1642
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:25,260
which we did you know in the late
90s really really helped us.

1643
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:29,700
So to your comment about hospitality
phenomenal to all of a sudden

1644
01:50:29,700 --> 01:50:34,470
say that you know as offices are
getting challenged let's bring

1645
01:50:34,470 --> 01:50:38,010
that hospitality thinking in.
And all of a sudden the resultant

1646
01:50:38,010 --> 01:50:44,990
workspaces are totally different.
So that I find to be opportunistic

1647
01:50:44,990 --> 01:50:48,800
for us. That's great.
So personally, what are your biggest

1648
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:52,250
wins, losses, and most surprising
events in your career.

1649
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:56,840
Well, I mentioned the Duke
relationship early on.

1650
01:50:57,350 --> 01:51:00,410
That Duke relationship, which
started with that little feasibility

1651
01:51:00,410 --> 01:51:06,270
study in, in in Raleigh.
Ended up leading to a new campus

1652
01:51:06,630 --> 01:51:10,140
in Shanghai, right outside.
It's actually Kunshan, China,

1653
01:51:10,350 --> 01:51:12,270
right outside of Shanghai.
So we had the opportunity.

1654
01:51:12,270 --> 01:51:15,930
I mean, when do you find an
opportunity to do a campus,

1655
01:51:16,230 --> 01:51:19,770
a full campus for a top
university from scratch?

1656
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,380
So it's called Duke Kunshan
University.

1657
01:51:22,380 --> 01:51:26,250
So they partnered with a Chinese
university,

1658
01:51:26,250 --> 01:51:32,610
and we designed a whole campus,
master plan architecture, interiors.

1659
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:35,790
And I remember it was an amazing
journey.

1660
01:51:35,790 --> 01:51:39,180
I went back and forth to China
so many times to work on this.

1661
01:51:39,360 --> 01:51:42,870, and with a great team here
and a great team there.

1662
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:49,500, and I remember going there
shortly after it opened, and I didn't

1663
01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:54,210
tell anybody that I was from Gensler.
I just walked along the campus back

1664
01:51:54,210 --> 01:51:58,170
to that idea of just observing.
Talked to faculty,

1665
01:51:58,170 --> 01:52:01,740
met up with some students,
walked through the buildings and

1666
01:52:01,740 --> 01:52:07,470
everyone had this like look of that.
They were a pride of place that they

1667
01:52:07,470 --> 01:52:11,880
were like they were happy there.
The outdoor spaces were phenomenal.

1668
01:52:12,270 --> 01:52:15,750
The indoor spaces looked out and
embraced the outdoor spaces.

1669
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:23,220
And I remember vividly walking into
the into one of the common spaces.

1670
01:52:23,790 --> 01:52:26,730
And there's these paintings
tacked to the wall.

1671
01:52:27,060 --> 01:52:29,760
And I found someone that worked
in that building and said,

1672
01:52:29,760 --> 01:52:32,820
who did these paintings?
And they said, well,

1673
01:52:32,850 --> 01:52:38,120
it's actually the schoolchildren.
From the nearby elementary school.

1674
01:52:39,030 --> 01:52:43,800
And it's paintings of special
moments on that campus.

1675
01:52:44,430 --> 01:52:47,610
Interesting that those little
kids walked on that campus and

1676
01:52:47,610 --> 01:52:50,850
that they were inspired by that.
So that's a project that I think

1677
01:52:50,850 --> 01:52:54,540
of as a great success.
Certainly the Shanghai Tower,

1678
01:52:54,540 --> 01:52:58,620
which we did as like you think of the
second tallest building in the world,

1679
01:52:58,620 --> 01:53:02,490
largest building in Asia, was a phenomenal experiment

1680
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:06,390
that was like reinventing the
super tall tower.

1681
01:53:06,540 --> 01:53:10,020
What is what is the skyscraper
want to be in the future?

1682
01:53:10,020 --> 01:53:13,980
And that was an incredible
success story.

1683
01:53:14,580 --> 01:53:16,950
You know, I mentioned challenges,
you know, the Olympics that we

1684
01:53:16,950 --> 01:53:22,300
didn't get. Well, we didn't get it.
But out of that came ideas that

1685
01:53:22,300 --> 01:53:24,760
could really seed, you know,
future thinking.

1686
01:53:25,090 --> 01:53:29,560
And I think we are believers that,
you know, in the opportunities

1687
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:33,760
that are successful, phenomenal.
But in the moments when it isn't,

1688
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:37,750
there are certainly kernels that
can be captured, that are learnings

1689
01:53:37,750 --> 01:53:41,470
that can benefit us going forward.
That's great. Any surprises?

1690
01:53:41,470 --> 01:53:44,320
Anything that kind of came out of
left field that you didn't expect?

1691
01:53:45,010 --> 01:53:47,260
Yeah, I mean,
I'll tell you one one right now,

1692
01:53:47,260 --> 01:53:49,960
the growth of our sports practice,
it's unbelievable.

1693
01:53:49,960 --> 01:53:55,180
We started this 15 years ago.
And we have we really have centers of

1694
01:53:55,180 --> 01:54:00,790
excellence in Austin, DC and LA.
But these sports opportunities

1695
01:54:00,790 --> 01:54:03,280
collegiate and pro are happening
globally.

1696
01:54:04,010 --> 01:54:09,140
And they are at all different scales.
It could be a basketball performance

1697
01:54:09,140 --> 01:54:14,690
center for college teams can be a new
stadium for the soccer team in LA,

1698
01:54:15,020 --> 01:54:17,540
could be a new, you know,
basketball arena,

1699
01:54:17,540 --> 01:54:23,150
could be a new football stadium, they're they're they're coming

1700
01:54:23,150 --> 01:54:28,490
in a way that's like wow.
And all of them that are,

1701
01:54:28,490 --> 01:54:33,920
you know, the bigger pro venues,
whether they're renovations or,

1702
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:38,840
new venues are really thinking
about not just the venue.

1703
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:41,690
It's back to that earlier dialogue
about sports and entertainment

1704
01:54:41,690 --> 01:54:45,500
districts. And that's great.
So think of all the practice

1705
01:54:45,500 --> 01:54:49,190
area leaderships that can play
at that table.

1706
01:54:49,190 --> 01:54:51,620
So that's been a really pleasant
surprise.

1707
01:54:51,620 --> 01:54:55,100
So because of that,
this week we're actually opening

1708
01:54:55,100 --> 01:54:59,330
a Kansas City location because
it's a talent hub for sports.

1709
01:54:59,330 --> 01:55:02,750
And we're finding that there's a
lot of interest in our,

1710
01:55:02,750 --> 01:55:06,860
our sports practice because it's
very different than the other sports

1711
01:55:06,860 --> 01:55:10,790
practices that are out there.
So people first attitude, it's

1712
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:15,890
about these practices all weaving
together to create that multiplier.

1713
01:55:16,460 --> 01:55:19,910
Well, that city had success last
evening. Sure did.

1714
01:55:19,940 --> 01:55:23,720
It's going to be a heck of a parade
on Wednesday. Yeah yeah yeah.

1715
01:55:24,020 --> 01:55:27,020
And they have an I've been there
a few times.

1716
01:55:27,020 --> 01:55:31,640
And, one of the coolest
architectural setups I've ever

1717
01:55:31,640 --> 01:55:36,890
seen is Country Club Plaza there,
which is a 1940s shopping area,

1718
01:55:36,890 --> 01:55:38,690
which is really interesting,
the history of that.

1719
01:55:38,690 --> 01:55:42,230
I don't know if you've seen it
or not, but images. Yeah, yeah.

1720
01:55:42,230 --> 01:55:46,550
And the space where,
you know, opening up in is it's

1721
01:55:46,550 --> 01:55:50,330
like quintessential Kansas City. Like old warehouse.

1722
01:55:50,330 --> 01:55:55,190
Oh really. Yeah. Kind of stuff.
And it's like that's feels right now.

1723
01:55:55,190 --> 01:56:01,640
That's cool.
So what is your life philosophy

1724
01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:04,490
with business, family and giving
back to the community.

1725
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:11,540, so very,
fortunate that, I married.

1726
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:15,380, a woman that I've known
since nursery school. Wow.

1727
01:56:15,650 --> 01:56:19,610
And whose last name was the same
as mine before we got married.

1728
01:56:20,150 --> 01:56:22,460
So she was a Goldstein before
she was a Goldstein.

1729
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:28,250
And, you know,
we have two great, great daughters.

1730
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:34,730, but just as my parents,
you know, did with me, which is,

1731
01:56:34,730 --> 01:56:39,500
you know, encourage exploration
and really feed the passions.

1732
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:41,930
I feel like we're trying to do
that as well.

1733
01:56:41,930 --> 01:56:45,830
And we our family is largely in
this area, which is great.

1734
01:56:45,830 --> 01:56:49,940
So it's not just about architecture
and design in the city, but it's

1735
01:56:49,940 --> 01:56:53,540
recognizing that it's architecture
and design in a city that our

1736
01:56:53,540 --> 01:56:58,580
families and our extended, you know,
family all live in this area too.

1737
01:56:58,610 --> 01:57:03,140
So it's bettering the communities
for them as, as well.

1738
01:57:03,740 --> 01:57:11,660
And, you know, from a, you know,
a standpoint of giving back,

1739
01:57:12,590 --> 01:57:17,210
I a couple of things, I love the,
the academic environment.

1740
01:57:17,750 --> 01:57:20,990
And I know several of my colleagues
at Gensler here have been

1741
01:57:20,990 --> 01:57:27,170
involved in teaching for a while.
So, you know, in, you know,

1742
01:57:27,170 --> 01:57:31,730
shortly after the murder of
George Floyd, we recognized that

1743
01:57:31,730 --> 01:57:35,000
maybe we should think about
teaching in a different way.

1744
01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:40,210
And connecting and building a
bridge to the next generation,

1745
01:57:40,210 --> 01:57:46,000
and perhaps really thinking that,
you know what, diversity in

1746
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:49,060
this profession needs to be looked
at through a much harder lens.

1747
01:57:49,730 --> 01:57:54,920
So we created a program.
We went to the seven HBCUs that

1748
01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:57,170
have accredited design programs.
That's great.

1749
01:57:57,170 --> 01:58:00,380
And said, hey,
can we be in the classroom with you?

1750
01:58:00,860 --> 01:58:07,730
So we're on our fourth year of doing
this, and it is, you know, we are

1751
01:58:07,730 --> 01:58:12,290
in the classroom with them and we
create we call it a mentor program.

1752
01:58:12,290 --> 01:58:18,260
So we have over 50 Gensler,
leaders that are in the classroom

1753
01:58:18,260 --> 01:58:24,080
working with faculty, you know,
teaching studio classes and

1754
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:28,610
creating a bridge for those for
several students to come and work.

1755
01:58:29,610 --> 01:58:34,590
But also for ideas to be shared,
you know, back and forth. Yeah.

1756
01:58:34,860 --> 01:58:39,180
Is Howard one of them. Yes.
Yeah. So that's your. Local one.

1757
01:58:39,180 --> 01:58:43,410
Here Howard UDC.
Oh that's Morgan State. Okay.

1758
01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:46,470
Outside of Baltimore's at three,
you know. Right in this area.

1759
01:58:47,310 --> 01:58:52,140, and then giving back is also
not just about, you know,

1760
01:58:52,140 --> 01:58:56,400
our core here.
It's also about,

1761
01:58:56,400 --> 01:58:59,730
really challenging,
ideas that are out there.

1762
01:58:59,730 --> 01:59:04,500
So we did a study with the city,
for instance, that looked at how

1763
01:59:04,500 --> 01:59:09,450
could you claim back,
some of those areas of the roads

1764
01:59:09,450 --> 01:59:13,830
that we were talking about earlier
and create parklet spaces?

1765
01:59:14,490 --> 01:59:19,950, and that led to drawings and
guidelines for how to think

1766
01:59:19,950 --> 01:59:23,670
differently about the streetscapes. That's cool.

1767
01:59:25,220 --> 01:59:28,280
So what advice would you give
your 25 year old self today?

1768
01:59:28,490 --> 01:59:39,990
Sure. I would say, to.
Embrace the off ramps. So.

1769
01:59:40,560 --> 01:59:46,800
The career path and the journey that
you know, you're on this highway

1770
01:59:47,040 --> 01:59:50,670
and there will be off ramps.
And I remember, you know,

1771
01:59:50,670 --> 01:59:52,950
I've been fortunate Diane
Hoskins and Andy Cohen,

1772
01:59:52,950 --> 01:59:58,020
that had been the CEOs for 18 years
prior to stepping into this role.

1773
01:59:58,020 --> 02:00:02,190
For me,
are now our global chairs.

1774
02:00:02,250 --> 02:00:05,700
They both were really early mentors
and encouraged. You know what?

1775
02:00:05,700 --> 02:00:08,850
If you see an off ramp, it's
interesting, you know, and you're not

1776
02:00:08,850 --> 02:00:12,810
sure where it could lead, take it.
And so that's led to a lot of

1777
02:00:12,810 --> 02:00:16,620
opportunities.
So I would say don't be afraid

1778
02:00:16,620 --> 02:00:19,980
of those off ramps.
And at the same time they're not

1779
02:00:19,980 --> 02:00:24,930
going to all be successful.
So if you don't succeed that's okay.

1780
02:00:25,170 --> 02:00:28,440
Learn from it and just keep going.
Focus forward.

1781
02:00:28,740 --> 02:00:33,210
And as I tell my kids don't live
life in the rearview mirror. Right.

1782
02:00:33,570 --> 02:00:37,890
Keep going, keep going. There you go.
If you could post a statement on a

1783
02:00:37,890 --> 02:00:41,850
billboard on the Capitol Beltway for
millions to see. What would it say?

1784
02:00:42,030 --> 02:00:47,100, don't don't look. Keep driving, I would say,

1785
02:00:47,460 --> 02:00:50,460
you know, actually,
it would go back to focus forward.

1786
02:00:51,410 --> 02:00:55,010
Because it feels like there's a
bright future for all those in

1787
02:00:55,010 --> 02:00:57,140
our in, you know,
the architectural and design

1788
02:00:57,140 --> 02:01:00,110
profession. It's going to change.
There's going to be disruption,

1789
02:01:00,110 --> 02:01:03,770
but it's going to lead to
something very different and

1790
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:08,870
opportunistic for so many people.
Jordan Goldstein, thank you for

1791
02:01:08,870 --> 02:01:11,930
joining me on us. John, a pleasure.
Great dialogue and good being

1792
02:01:11,930 --> 02:01:12,920
with you. Enjoyed it.